In the following conversation Srila Prabhupada gives an interesting challenge to the atheistic men about the existence of God.
Devotee (3): Those persons who are atheistic, they say that God is created out of a necessity, that people have a necessity to have their father image, so therefore they create religion. This is their basic philosophy, that man creates his own religion. He creates it out of necessity. He needs a father image, so therefore he creates the idea of God.
Prabhupada: Created? What is that?
Devotee (3): No. They feel that we have created, man has created the idea of God out of necessity.
Devotee (4): The atheists are saying that man needs God although there is no God. They are insecure in this world.
Prabhupada: What is God?
Devotee (3): They feel basically that it's an idea. God is an idea.
Prabhupada: Why it is idea? Explain. What for this idea? Why this idea is necessary?
Devotee (1): Basically I think because in the Western countries there's no conception of God.
Prabhupada: They.... Those who have no conception, that is another thing. But those who talk of God, that there is God or there is no God, what is the conception of God? That is.... Why do they say there is no God? Why do they say there is God? Somebody accept there is God. Somebody does not accept. So, there are two causes.
Hari-sauri: The basic principle is that God is there, so you either accept or reject Him.
Prabhupada: Yes. (laughs) One is doubtful or one is convinced. God is there. One is doubtful, he says "There is no God." My question is why the question of God is there?
Devotee (1): General consensus is that when one is in need of God, then they accept God. They don't think that out of knowledge...
Prabhupada: Therefore I am asking what is the conception, why they need, why they do not need. First of all describe food. There is some idea, that food is like this. Then the question of food. If there is no need of food, then why is this food question?
Devotee (1): Just like the child wants to be protected by the parent, they're thinking that..., therefore people are feeling that they want to be protected by God. The child is always seeking protection from the parent.
Prabhupada: There is necessity of God. Just like the child, there is necessity of the parents, a parent is there. Similarly, you feel necessity of God, God is there. Feeling the necessity of parent, the parents are there. Similarly, if you feel necessity of God, then God is there.
Devotee (1): They say that because people are feeling this necessity, it is a crutch.
Prabhupada: No, no. Necessity means there is. Otherwise why necessity? When you feel hungry, the necessity of food, food is there. The necessity of light, the sun is there.
Devotee (4): Do you mean, Srila Prabhupada, in order to conceive of something, a thing must be there?
Prabhupada: There is no "conceive." Necessity. You require it. Just like when you're hungry you require food. Food is there. The eyes want to see; therefore the object of seeing is there. The hand wants to touch, so the object of touching is there. The nose wants to smell: the object of smell is there. So as soon as you feel necessity, the thing is there.
Hari-sauri: And it's there even if you don't feel the necessity.
Prabhupada: Ha?
Hari-sauri: It's there even if you don't feel the necessity.
Prabhupada: That is another tradition. First of all, as soon as you feel necessity, the object is there.
Devotee (4): They say that necessity should not be God, but that it should be transferred to man.
Prabhupada: I am not talking of God. I say as soon as you feel necessity, the object is there.
Devotee (5): That necessity is our mistake. That is our insecurity.
Prabhupada: So.... [break] ...that is mistake, then you are rascal, that's all. Mistake is committed by rascal. So you are rascal. If you commit mistake then you are rascal. Then don't talk, stop talking. (everyone laughs) Who is going to hear a rascal? (indistinct) [break] ...he is hungry, there is no necessity of food? Who's that rascal that says "No, there is no necessity of food"? He's feeling hungry, he wants to eat something, and if he says "No, there is no necessity of food," then is he not rascal? And if you say "Now we are feeling the necessity of food, but that is my mistake," is that answer?
Devotee (1): They're feeling that some people have the necessity for God, but actually...
Prabhupada: Why? That is the question. Why some people have? That means some people intelligent, some people rascals. That's all. This is wrong.
Devotee (1): The question is, why some people are feeling a necessity for God? That is the question they ask.
Prabhupada: That is the difference between rascal and intelligent. Just like in Hawaii Island, when the rascals were living, they did not feel the necessity of skyscraper. When intelligent Americans came, they feel the necessity. That is the difference. (everyone laughs) Is that all right?
Devotee (1): Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupada: Necessity is the mother of invention. That is an English proverb. Is it not? So unless you feel necessity, you are rascal.
Hari-sauri: Well, taking that the other way...
Prabhupada: Dull matter. Dull matter. It has no necessity. It is dull matter. And as soon as you have got life, there is necessity. Without feeling necessity means dullness. Just like these Hawaiians, very nice. They did not think the necessity of the skyscraper, motorcar.... But when it was inhabited by the Americans, (indistinct) That is the difference between advanced and not advanced.
Devotee (1): Can one say that necessity for eating, sleeping, mating and defending is animal life? The necessity for God is advanced life?
Prabhupada: Certainly. Necessity means more you become advanced, the more necessity. Necessity mother of invention. Advancement, they are manufacturing so many things. There is no necessity of car, but people are advanced, they are inventing: "Now comfortably I shall..." So necessity means advanced life. No necessity means dull life. That's all.
Devotee (1): The atheists fear that they've put the necessity on the wrong object.
Prabhupada: That means they're rascals. If there is no necessity, that means dull life, dull brain. The madman will think there is no necessity of clothing: "I can remain naked." And actually remains. He's a madman. And a sensible man, he requires dress, nice dress, first-class dress. So this is the difference between intelligent and dull. Dull has no necessity. Intelligent has necessity.
(Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu)
