In this striking conversation Srila Prabhupada explains how the body of Jesus Christ is spiritual and therefore can never be killed. The same applies to any pure devotee's body. Yogesvara: He (the Bishop) says that he finds many things agreeable in this Vedic tradition, but he says that he thinks it might be a mistake to say that the Bible is exactly the same thing as the Vedas. He says there are still distinctions.
Prabhupada: Then, then, distinction, then it is to be considered which is perfect, the later edition or the original. (French)
Jyotirmayi: They are saying that according to their understanding, God revealed Himself little by little, and then at certain moment, He revealed Himself in His totality. But in the Vedic literature, there it is said that the whole knowledge was given at the beginning. Everything together. He said that he's very much respecting your research, and that he's asking that we should not say that these two research in Christianism and the Vedas, the scriptures, are the same. They are two different things. (French)
Yogesvara: He says, for example, the verse you read yesterday, that was similar to what is taught in the Vedas, but if we take the rest of that chapter from the Bible, we find some discrepancies, differences.
Prabhupada: What is that? (French)
Yogesvara: For example, in that chapter, it also says that the word of God became flesh and that flesh was the son of God, Lord Jesus Christ.
Prabhupada: But that means Jesus Christ is transcendental, not of this material world. (French)
Yogesvara: They say... They accept... They think that Lord Jesus, however, was a human being. He was spiritual, but also he was part of this material world.
Prabhupada: No, material world is part of Jesus Christ, but Jesus Christ is not part of material world. (French)
Yogesvara: He says that they had a human body, he had a material body.
Prabhupada: That human body appears like that, but he had no this material flesh and blood. A material body, how there can be resurrection?
Yogesvara: If it was material body, how is it possible for him to be resurrected? (French)
Prabhupada: Is that all right?
Jyotirmayi: They said it is by the acintya power of God.
Prabhupada: These, these rascals, they thought that "Jesus had a material body. Let us kill him." So Jesus Christ bewildered them more, to remain rascal, that they will continue to think that Jesus had a material body.
Jyotirmayi: Bewildered them?
Yogesvara: Yes, he bewildered them more by saying: "All right, go on thinking like that."
Prabhupada: That is their punishment. They remain always in darkness that Jesus had a material body. (French)
Jyotirmayi: So he's saying that he respects your explanation, but that the Christians, they have another explanation, and that if we...
Prabhupada: But we must come to the reason before giving explanation. You cannot explain...
Yogesvara: What is the reason for his incarnation?
Prabhupada: You cannot explain whimsically. You cannot explain whimsically. If Jesus Christ is son of God, he has... That means he has got spiritual body. You...
French Woman: Yes, we accept that he got the has got spiritual body, but we say that he assumed also a material body.
Prabhupada: Now, then, then, another thing is: you accept Jesus Christ the only son of God, is it not? So when you pray in the church, you address God, "Oh Father." Then why "only son"?
French Woman: We say that the son is...
Prabhupada: Then everyone is son.
French Woman: Yes, we say that this is the same God, yes.
Prabhupada: If I address God, "My father," then I am his son. So why there should be "only son"? (French)
French Woman: Yes, we say that we are adopted sons. (laughter) (French)
Jyotirmayi: They say that they are sons, that all living beings are sons, but by adoption.
Yogesvara: Adopted son. Yes.
Prabhupada: So therefore these sons' body and Jesus's body cannot be equal. So adopted son has got material body, not the real son. (French)
Yogesvara: Their idea is that: Yes, of course, Lord Jesus, being the son of God, his body is spiritual, but because he wanted to take part in the life of the human beings on earth, he actually accepted a material body just to live among men.
Prabhupada: Why he should accept?
French Woman: But we have a vesper that says that he was died, that he was suffering, and things which show that...
Prabhupada: But his death... You think that he was died, but he resurrected.
French Woman: But the gospel says that he had died.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
French Woman: You cannot... We accept the totality of the word, as you accept your word.
Prabhupada: No. No, no. "Died" means that is similar death. Janma karma me divyam [Bg. 4.9]. Just like Christ take birth from the womb of Mary. It appears like that, but actually that is not. (French)
French Woman: No, it is very important that the death of Christ is a real death. For us, it is the center of our faith.
Yogesvara: They say that the central point of their philosophy is that Lord Jesus actually died. (French)
Prabhupada: No, according to Vedic conception, even ordinary living being, he does not die. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. You understand Sanskrit?
French Woman: No, I don't understand it by hearing it. You have to read it.
Prabhupada: Na hanyate, does not die, hanyamane sarire, apparently, the body being dead, the soul is never dead. (French)
Yogesvara: So... Shall I explain that one? What the good Pastor -- are they called Pastor? -- describes is that in order for there to be a dialogue, we have to respect each others' positions, not that we will try to convert the other. He says just as we respect you have an absolute faith in the Vedic philosophy, so also there must be respect that the Christian interpretation of the life of Lord Jesus and his death...
Prabhupada: Oh, I think I have better respect than him to Jesus Christ. I say he does not die. He says he dies. (French) So far respect is concerned, I have more respect than them. They want to see Jesus Christ dead. I don't want to see him dead.
Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris