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Purujit Dasa, the Founder of The B.L.I.S.S, gives a class about the powerful nature of the mind.

This podcast gets really spicy.

This is a testimony from a devotee of the name Subhangi Devi Dasi about how she assisted her father at the time of death. Chilling and touching at the same time. Please have a read: Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupad! All glories to all of the Vaishnavas, especially the preachers who are saving the world from hell! All glories to your service! Have you ever heard of terminal restlessness? Probably not, unless you are a doctor or a nurse. But although the name is new, the condition is described in Srimad Bhagavatam. Srila Prabhupada says: "And similarly, miserable condition of death. When one is lying in coma, so many sufferings is going on, so many dreaming, the Yamaduta is coming. Sometimes the man on the deathbed cries, he's so much suffering but there is no remedy. Everyone is helpless. So that is the miserable condition of death..." Srila Prabhupad, Gorakhpur Feb 18, 1971 I will tell you how I found out about it, and this story is a classic example of the dreadful reality faced by all the suffering souls of this material world. It also shows clearly what Srila Prabhupad has saved us from and why we should feel eternally indebted to him.It all started when I received a phone call from my parents saying that Dad was sick with cancer. I believe in omens, and my right eye started twitching profusely, so I knew that the outcome wouldn't be good. That was in the beginning of November.But Dad was optimistic. He was sure he could overcome everything, as he had always been the controller in every situation and had faced many trials in life and overcome them all. Until now he seemed to be a lucky guy, enjoying good facilities and good karma in every respect. Little did he know that his good karma had come to a grinding halt. If Krsna wants to save you no one can kill you, but if Krsna wants to kill you no one can save you. Dad had prostate cancer, and it had spread into his bones. He was having chemotherapy, but it failed twice. I rang one day, and he literally wept. "I'm dying," he said. I felt compassion for him. He was helpless in the hands of cruel fate. I tried to help. "Well don't worry," I said. "There is reincarnation. You will be okay. Just pray. God is kind." But it was little comfort to someone who was bewildered and didn't know God. After that I felt that I was somehow connected to his suffering. I could feel all of his fear and anxiety. I would pray all the time. I didn't want to experience any of it, but I guess I was karmically connected to him, so there was no escape no matter how far away I was. The physical suffering was nothing compared to the mental torture he was experiencing. He became humble, and I dropped everything a couple of times and flew from Vrindavan to be with him. In the past he had never wanted to hear anything about Krishna, so I had given up trying years ago. We never discussed the subject. I would just feed him prasad (he loved my cooking) and talk about other things. I had Vrindavan dust with me and some Yamuna water mixed with Ganga. There were also some small Jagannatha Deities. I deposited all these things in the house, hoping they would have an effect and using them whenever possible, in Dad's food and so on. I kept praying and hoping that somehow I could convince him about Krishna before he died. He was so bewildered and humbled by his lack of control over the situation that he was willing to listen to some degree. He was clutching at straws. I read him some Bhagavad Gita, and he said that it was comforting. I also read to him from Coming Back. He liked that because the idea of reincarnation was something positive to look for in the future, and he was desperate for that. I saw in there the chapter about Ajamila and felt I should read it to him, but thought maybe it was too much to thrust upon him. Besides, I was there, and because I was chanting everything it would be okay, or so I thought. I really believed you could just chant Hare Krishna and all bad things would go away. I guess this is a superficial and neophyte viewpoint. The material world is such a heavy place, and with my great ego I, was overestimating my own purity. I realized later that I'm really not even a devotee. If you are incapable of saving yourself, how can you possibly save anyone else? I had to fly back to Vrindavan several times, as I had family and business commitments, but the whole time I could feel him pulling me. I had zero mental peace during this time. I think he really wanted me there and was emotionally dependant on me, as I was the only one offering any tangible solutions. People are basically not sympathetic either, and he needed a lot of understanding. I am not good at handling suffering, so this was difficult to bear seeing someone you care for suffering so much anxiety. I left my Jagannatha Deities there and asked them to forgive any offense but to please protect my father while I went back to India on business just for a couple of weeks. Then my mother rang. She was at her wits' end. "Please come," she said. "He is in hospital now, and we need you here." I jumped on the first flight, and as soon as I arrived, I moved into the hospital with Dad. It was incredible how Krishna seemed to arrange it. They gave us a private room and let me sleep there and care for him. Nobody questioned my authority, and my mother just backed off and let me do anything. She is a Roman Catholic and doesn't usually allow me to speak about Krishna. I realized that the karmis are so far into denial that they try to avoid the reality of death as much as possible, so it was a way out for her if I took the burden. She could go home and pretend nothing was happening, yet still know that Dad was being taken care of by me. Or maybe deep down she also felt desperate for his spiritual welfare, and I was the best solution they had. I'm not really sure. Once it all goes beyond their material perception and control, they become completely bewildered. I only know that I was able to fully take over the care of my father. Many people must suffer and die alone in hospitals going through what I am about to tell…I slept next to Dad and tended to his every need. I managed to get Tulasi beads on him, which one demoniac nurse kept taking off. I got mental about it. Oh no, I thought, he is so sinful, he can't wear Tulasi. Then I just got in this mindset that I was going to be aggressive and keep those beads on him no matter what. She would take them off, and I would just smile sweetly and put them right back on.I read some Bhagavad Gita to him. He didn't eat at all for the twelve days leading up to his death. For eight of those days he had only Ganga and Yamuna water and nothing else. I controlled everything that went into his mouth. I even started sprinkling Vrindavan dust in his water as well. Toward the end, he was on another level, not of this world. He seemed to be perceiving things that other people couldn't. For example, every night I would put on a Shiva T-Shirt to wear to bed. There was a large picture of Lord Shiva on the front of it. My habit was to wait till he was asleep and in a subtle manner, sprinkle a little bit of Vrindavan dust on his head in case he died while I was asleep. One night I had just sprinkled the dust, and he sprang up with a wide-eyed look of amazement. "Oh, you're all surrounded by dust," he said. Another night, in the same way, he sprang awake and looked at my Lord Shiva shirt. "Careful!" he said. "There's fire coming out of your shirt." The day before he died, he said there were big dogs in the room and an ugly person floating outside the window. The evening before his death he began to feel disturbed. "Untie my legs," he was saying to I don't know whom, and he was visibly distressed. My mother and my daughter decided to stay overnight at the hospital, which they didn't normally do. I drifted off to sleep and so did Mum. At about 9.30 pm my daughter woke me up. "Mum," she said, "come quickly! Something's happening to Grand-dad." I raced over to the bed and Dad was moaning. "Please, please," he was saying, "I beg you, let me loose, please let me loose." His tone was humble and terrified, and his eyes were lowered. He was to say these words many, many times over the next six hours. He was trying to jump off the bed and hide under his pillow. You have to understand that he was skin and bones. He couldn't even urinate without help, and here he was suddenly trying to get up and run off. He was thrashing around like a mad man. This is really inauspicious, I thought. I grabbed him by the shoulders. "Dad," I said, "what's happening? You okay?" He was terrified. "Oh Sue," he cried out, "I tried to get away, I really did, but they got me." His voice went up to a shout. "She's got me!" he yelled out. At that time I should have realized what was happening, but the fact that he said, "She's got me" put me off, and somehow I got covered over, and for the next six hours I just tried to comfort him. He cried out again and again. "Oh, for God's sake," he would shout, "just let me rest, just ten minutes. Please, I beg you." His tone of voice was terrified and all the while humble and begging. I would chant and he would relax a little. Then a nurse would come and distract me, and he would start again, thrashing and begging. "What's wrong?" I asked. He seemed exasperated. "I'm trying to tell you," he said, "but I just can't." Then at 3 am it suddenly dawned on me that the Yamadutas had him. It was so obvious, and I felt so foolish for not realizing it until now. I turned to my 13-year-old daughter and told her I thought the Yamadutas had him. "Yes," she said. "I know. I woke you up because I saw three of them floating above his bed, and he was cowering and looking up." She had actually seen them. She described later how they looked, with boar-like tusks coming upward out of their mouths and glaring eyes. She had thought they were some kind of ghosts trying to steal his soul from his body. Of course, by Krishna's arrangement, my mother was sleeping, oblivious the whole time. What to do? I thought. I started to pray to Krishna: "Oh, please let him go, Krishna." I was begging. Then Supersoul would answer. "Why?" He would say. "He will only offend again." Then I was really upset. I started praying to Yamaraja" "Please, Yamaraja..." And all the while, I was chanting. I told Dad I was sorry I hadn't realized sooner that they had hold of him. He nodded, traumatized. His whole death experience was hellish. I'm sorry that any souls have to experience such a thing and understand now why Srila Prabhupad felt such urgency to save everyone. "Dad," I said, "do you want me to hold you and chant?" "Yes, yes," he said. "Have they still got you?" "No, they let me go." Then I held him tight for the next three hours, and he slowly gave up his life, through his mouth, peacefully with me chanting right in his ear and dripping Ganga and Yamuna water into his mouth. I stayed fully focused on chanting very close to his ear until he breathed his last, at 6 am. He went straight out of his mouth and his eyes just closed. Poor him! Cruel, cruel, hellish material world! It had been only seven months from the start of his illness, and the seventy-one-year story of his life was forcibly ended. While he would be thrashing and crying out "Let me loose!" I'd ask the nurses what was happening. "Oh, it's normal," they'd say. "He's just fighting it, and it happens to everyone. There's even a term for it. It's called terminal restlessness. And they give nurses' seminars about how to deal with it." Well I've got news for you, folks. It's actually terminal Yamadutaness. Of course they are advised to just pump them full of morphine and ignore all their ramblings. Another thing is that no one is meant to know about it. It was purely Krishna's mercy that we were able to realize it, and even then I almost missed it. For six hours I was confused and yet Dad was telling me quite clearly and begging for help, so some sort of maya is covering the whole thing and people aren't aware of it. Only the person who is going through it knows. Mention is made of the dogs. A devotee told me afterwards that they were reading Yamaraja scriptures, which give detailed descriptions, and it is said that the hounds of hell come ahead several days before and sniff out where the rascals are dying. There was also the fact that he said, "She's got me." Apparently the Yamadutas have their own society with wives, kids and everything. Since they are also living entities in this material world, they are born into that society. I don't usually put pen to paper, as I don't feel at all qualified to do so, but mother Radha Kunda Devi Dasi encouraged me and said that this experience should be shared with all the devotees. So please excuse my shortcomings. I am not very philosophical or academic. Here are some of Srila Prabhupada's comments on the subject: "To see the Yamadutas, or the carriers of order of Yamaraja, superintendent of death, to see face to face... At the time of death, when one very sinful man is dying, he sees the Yamaraja or the order carriers of Yamaraja. They are very fierce looking. Sometimes the man on the deathbed becomes very much fearful, cries, 'Save me, save me.'" Srimad Bhagavatam lecture, Denver, July 2, 1975 "But you take this mission and go everywhere, in every corner. I am thankful to you. You are already doing that, in Europe and America, [people are] deep asleep. Because people are sleeping under misguidance, and they are becoming candidate for being carried away by the Yamaduta. This is the position of the whole world, Yamaduta. Yamaduta will not excuse you, however you may be very proud of becoming independent. This is not possible. To save the human civilization, the rascal civilization, that 'There is no life after death, and you go on enjoying as much as you like,' this wrong civilization is [a] killing civilization. So you save them. You save them. Otherwise the Yamaduta is there." Vrindavan, September 5, 1975 "This man was like this, and he must be carried to Yamaraja for punishment..." Why punishment? No, to make him purified, it is said, 'Punishment required.' This is nature's law. Just like if you have infected some disease, the punishment is you must suffer for it. The punishment is good. If you have infected some disease, and when you suffer, that means you become purified from the disease. Suffering is not bad, to become purified. Therefore when a devotee suffers, he does not take it ill. He thinks that, 'I am being purified. I am being purified.'" Vrindavan, September 5, 1975 So I suppose that even though Dad had Tulasi beads on, he was a good man by ordinary standards, but he liked to hunt, and he had been a drinker, womanizer, and cow eater. And even though he had had all facilities for the last 28 years, he didn't surrender to Krishna. Even at the time of death, he didn't seem able to think of Krishna as the solution to his woes.Srila Prabhupad sums it up in the purport to Srimad Bhagavatam 6.2.49: "At the time of death one is certainly bewildered because his bodily functions are in disorder. At that time, even one who throughout his life has practiced chanting the holy name of the Lord may not be able to chant the Hare Krsna mantra very distinctly. Nevertheless, such a person receives all the benefits of chanting the holy name. While the body is fit therefore, why should we not chant the holy name of the Lord loudly and distinctly? If one does so, it is quite possible that even at the time of death he will be properly able to chant the holy name of the Lord with love and faith." Purport to Srimad Bhagavatam 6.2.15: "Whatever state of being one remembers when he quits his body, that state he will attain without fail. If one practices chanting the Hare Krsna mantra, he is naturally expected to chant Hare Krsna when he meets with some accident. Even without such practice, however, if one somehow or other chants the holy name of the Lord (Hare Krsna) when he meets with an accident and dies, he will be saved from hellish life after death. One is immediately absolved from having to enter hellish life, even though he is sinful." In the purport to Srimad Bhagavatam 6.2.7: "The Yamadutas had considered only the external situation of Ajamila. Since he was extremely sinful throughout his life, they thought he should be taken to Yamaraja and did not know that he had become free from the reactions of all his sins. The Visnudutas therefore instructed that because he had chanted the four syllables of the name Narayana at the time of his death, he was freed from all sinful reactions." In the same purport, Srila Prabhupada quotes the following verses: "Simply by chanting one holy name of Hari, a sinful man can counteract the reactions to more sins than he is able to commit." Brhad-Visnu Purana "If one chants the holy name of the Lord, even in a helpless condition or without desiring to do so, all the reactions of his sinful life depart, just as when a lion roars, all the small animals flee in fear." Garuda Purana "By once chanting the holy name of the Lord, which consists of the two syllables ha-ri, one guarantees his path to liberation." Skanda Purana I can only hope and pray that somehow my father had a small thought of Krishna because of my feeble efforts and the causeless mercy of Guru and Gauranga. Anyway, I would like the feedback of all the devotees. Do others have similar experiences to tell? What do you all think about this topic? Please all of you Vaishnavas pray for my father that he may have an opportunity to serve Krishna. I was thinking myself to be the big hero, going to save my father, only to find that I'm just a big bag of hot air zero. I am such a fallen rascal that I couldn't help him in his hour of need, and I hope this story helps others to advance their efforts in Krishna consciousness so that we can all help Srila Prabhupada in his mission to relieve all the sufferings of the fallen conditioned souls. All glories to Srila Prabhupada, savior of the whole world! Your fallen servant, Subhangi Devi Dasi subhangidevidasi@yahoo.com

Srila Prabhupada explains in this quote how the living entity forgets his eternal self and identifies with the material body. Unless a living entity forgets his real identity, it is impossible for him to live in the material conditions of life. Therefore the first condition of material existence is forgetfulness of one's real identity. And by forgetting one's real identity, one is sure to be afraid of death, although a pure living soul is deathless and birthless. This false identification with material nature is the cause of false ownership of things which are offered by the arrangement of superior control. All material resources are offered to the living entity for his peaceful living and for the discharge of the duties of self-realization in conditioned life. But due to false identification, the conditioned soul becomes entrapped by the sense of false ownership of the property of the Supreme Lord. (SB 3.12.2)

The following is a verse from the Bhagavad-gita As It Is by His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada where Lord Krsna explains about the various bodies one attains if he is predominantly surcharged with the modes of passion and ignorance. rajasi pralayam gatva karma-sangisu jayate tatha pralinas tamasi mudha-yonisu jayate When one dies in the mode of passion, he takes birth among those engaged in fruitive activities; and when he dies in the mode of ignorance, he takes birth in the animal kingdom. PURPORT BY HIS DIVINE GRACE A.C.BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI PRABHUPADA Some people have the impression that when the soul reaches the platform of human life, it never goes down again. This is incorrect. According to this verse, if one develops the mode of ignorance, after his death he is degraded to the animal form of life. From there one has to again elevate himself, by evolutionary process, to come again to the human form of life. Therefore, those who are actually serious about human life should take to the mode of goodness and in good association transcend the modes and become situated in Krsna consciousness. This is the aim of human life. Otherwise, there is no guarantee that the human being will again attain to the human status. (Bg 14.16 verse and purport)

Start preparing by tuning in to this BLISS Podcast with His Grace Purujit dasa and Maitreya Rsi Dasa.

Why would we do such a stupid thing? Have you ever wondered whether or not you are simply a combination of chemicals, a kind of robot that simply follows the orders of the brain, with no aspect of freedom? Are we completely conditioned or is there any free will? And what about that "spiritual world", Is that a fairytale? What is free will? Free will is the ability to decide what you’re going to choose. But from the Vedas we know that this material world is completely controlled by three modes of material nature: sattva (goodness), rajas (passion), tamas (ignorance). By combination of those modes 8 400 000 types of bodies are created so every spirit soul can fulfill his specific material desires. This world is designed for those who want to control, and be the so called supreme controller, according to whom everybody will follow according to ones desires. We can see everybody is trying for that. But if we have different desires, how I can work? We can't control everybody, nor everything. You can control some people, a dog maybe, or some phenomenon, but not all the living entities of all the planets, the weather, or every single atom. That means the real controller is the controller of everything. Otherwise it's just cheap imitation. We desired to be Krishna, and Krishna designed a world for us to try and imitate him. According to our specific desires Krishna puts us in a specific body, by our free will we enter them. He doesn’t force us, in fact He warned us, but we insisted and He fulfilled it. Then in order to make sure all our desires are exactly fulfilled the material modes of nature created the whole predestined mechanism, according to which everything would be exactly performed in order to fulfill the desires of the living entities. Then we are forced to follow that. If you want another nonsense Krishna will arrange it for you. Our free will doesn't depend on anything material. But because we always desire nonsense we are always being put and entangled into the material world and it's affairs. But if we desire to serve Krishna, which is our constitutional position, and if we do what is natural for us, we are free. If you do something that isn’t according to your propensity, like a gardener doing surgery, then he feels unnatural, unhappy, distressed and there are negative consequences. That is what we are experiencing, isn't it? Aren't we frustrated? Aren’t we unhappy? So many unnatural things. Why? Because we are situated in an unnatural position in an unnatural material world. If we would be like a fish in water: where is the distress and struggle? There is none. That’s an easy proof something is wrong. So if we desire properly to come back to Krishna, to the spiritual world and serve Him out of natural spontaneous love, which is, due to our rebellion and envy, being covered, then we will feel happy. If there is such an unnatural condition of the material world that means there is natural world also. Just like a diseased person. Before he was healthy and everything was cool. After he became sick everything was bitter and troublesome. So we are also diseased, we need to cure ourselves. Being sick is not the original position. The original is being healthy. So because we suffer it means we are diseased. And as soon as we cure our disease, we come to our original healthy condition and we can understand that this material distress and affairs are unnatural. We can realize we belong to different world, to the world where our eternal friend, Lord Krishna, is residing and we have loving relationship with Him. It's only up to our free will to decide to come back home, where we belong. Krishna then will send you proper guidance by His loyal devotee who will direct you. Make a proper decision today. It's up to you.

One so-called spiritualist once said in a lecture that "I do not believe in a personal God, because a personal God would never let the poor cows suffer and be eaten." How could an all-good God be so cruel as to let suffering happen in this world, especially, in some cases, on such a large scale? Sometimes, it's seen that man rejects the idea of God because of some traumatic incident in his life, by which he determines that God is dead, or that he was never there in the first place. One so-called spiritualist once said in a lecture that "I do not believe in a personal God, because a personal God would never let the poor cows suffer and be eaten." We all want to put the blame on God when something bad happens and claim the credit for ourselves when something good happens. If we get something nice, we think it's due to our own own efforts, and if something unpalatable happens to us, then we think that God is very unfair. This is all the false ego. Something is good for us to so we accept, and when something is not good for us we reject it. Krishna is the supreme controller and personality of Godhead, and by Krishna's supreme will, everything is happening. It is said that not even a blade of grass moves without the will of Krishna. But simultaneously, it is due to the individual, fragmental part of God, the minute living entity, what we are, that chooses to suffer. Krishna expands himself into minute part and parcels so that he can participate in transcendental loving relationships with him in service, which increases his transcendental bliss. Not that he needs such service, because he is atma-rama, or self-satisfied. If the living entities had no free will, then the relationship would not be blissful, as there would be no love. One cannot reciprocate with a programmed robot. "Hold on." I hear you cry. "We choose to suffer? Why would we ever condemn ourselves like that?" Yes, this is what we accept as enjoyment. When we want to be the enjoyer of our senses instead of the servant of God, we have to accept a material body, and that covers us with the illusion that we are enjoying the separately from God. We are very much attached to the body, and we accept those in relation to the body as kinsmen and the land of it's birth as worshipable. The desire to become Krishna is very strong in the conditioned soul, and he chooses the temporary life of enjoyment in a material body in order to have that desire fulfilled. We substitute Krishna for things relative to the body in order to pretend that we are the maintainer and enjoyer, to usurp Krishna's position, although we are still serving Krishna through his impersonal expansion of energies, which make up the material world and body with it's sense objects and senses respectively. For every action we perform in the material world for our own enjoyment, that is called work, which is better known as Karma. When we do something, we get a subsequent reaction from material nature. Just like if I overeat some nice sweets. It might seem very appealing in the beginning, but if I eat too much, I will find out very shortly that the same sweet will cause me indigestion, which is not so appealing. The reaction is unavoidable and guaranteed if I eat more than my body is capable of digesting. That is a law of nature. So in the same way, whatever we do has a reaction. We might not immediately see the effect, or if we experience the effect we might not be able to ascertain the cause, but it is there. There's nothing that exists without a previous cause in this world. Even if one is a scientist and says there is no ultimate cause, there is still some kind of chain of action and reaction, and that's simple science. We can therefore understand that everything that is happening to us is just an impartial and natural reaction from nature. Furthermore, the cause is always intelligent, there is no example of a cause being initiated by something impersonal. There is no case of material elements or chemicals simply coming together on their own accord and creating something. We know that everything is enacted by some kind of intelligence. Even if a scientist tries to prove that chemicals are the ultimate cause, he will try to prove by an experiment conducted by himself, which means that a person will still always be the cause. So even if something appears to be caused by impersonal nature, from our practical experience we can logically conclude that even that had a person behind it. So the reactions we experience now as happiness and suffering are all of our own accord. The eternal soul is passing through varieties of bodies, creating reaction after reaction, some pious, some impious, and then that creates another body in order to taste the fruit of that seed of karma. It's not that everything is happening to us by chance. This nature is ultimately under the control of Krishna, as is confirmed in his Bhagavad-Gita when he says: This material nature, which is one of My energies, is working under My direction, O son of Kunti, producing all moving and nonmoving beings. Under its rule this manifestation is created and annihilated again and again. [BG 9.10] Krishna is not partial to anyone here. Krishna is aloof from the dealings of the material world, it is simply going on by his energies. Just like in the material world, we have a practical example that a factory owner's factory is going on by his simple pushing of a button or by no effort at all, by his presence and direction the factory is going on. He simply set up the factory, employed some workers and now he can relax. So if a minute living entity with just a little bit of power can make something work by the effect of his energy, what to speak of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who full of inconceivable energies? God is aloof from the material manifestation even though it is expanded from His energy and is under His ultimate control. Meanwhile, He is enjoying in the spiritual world in His eternal and transcendental blissful pastimes. When we become envious of his supreme position, we have to come down to the material world to try enjoy our so called pastimes, which are temporary, mundane and miserable. But because that is our desire, Krishna is obliged to fulfill it. Krishna is the dearest friend of all living entities, and when one of them wants something, Krishna immediately fulfills that desire. So this material world is simply the manifestation of our desire to be God, and everything that happens within it is a reaction to our previous attempts to lord it over the material nature. We shouldn't get it wrong that Krishna is a person like us, who enjoys the sufferings of others and thinks it well that those who displease him are punished. It is said in the Upanishad, "The Lord engages the living entity in pious activities so that he may be elevated. The Lord engages him in impious activities so that he may go to hell." [Kausitaki Upanishad 3.8] The Lord is impartial to the living entities. He does not interrupt their free will. The Lord, however, is expanded within the hearts of all living beings as the expansion of his energy called the Paramatma [God, within the heart], or the Super-soul. This is sometimes felt as intuition. Depending on a soul's desire, Krishna inspires him from within to act in a certain way. Therefore, if one wants to act as a criminal, he can do so, but he has to suffer the consequences, and those same consequences are felt in later lives in the forms of disease, misfortune and similar other calamities. In the same way, pious activities reward one with material benedictions like a good birth in a highly respected family, a healthy, beautiful body, different degrees of wealth and a highly desirable significant other. Ultimately, however, all of these so-called pious or impious activities are bad for living entities. Someone might be very inclined to do good for others, and so he engages in philanthropy, charity and the like, but that is all unfavorable because it is done for sense gratification. Sense gratification is for immediate enjoyment of the gross senses, and then it extends to family, society and nation, but remains selfish. Anything done in such a consciousness means one has to take a material body to enjoy the fruits of that labor of love. Therefore, even though our sense gratification may take the guise of pious, "good" works, it is actually all bad and very much against our interest. But because we are an eternal part and parcel of Krishna, who is sac-cit-ananda [Bs 5.1], eternally blissful and full of knowledge, we are also constituted like that, but in a minute form. That's why we are always looking for happiness, education and the preservation of life. Being covered by the material energy and reactions to past deeds, however, we are forgetful of our original nature and try to find the same satisfaction of the self through the agency of the body and the sense objects. Such a attempt will always prove frustrating however, because we are not the body, but spirit soul. When you try to satisfy the senses, whether its in an illegal and impious way, through intoxication and illicit sex, or through pious activities like charity and philanthropy, these things only affect the body and mind, and therefore they don't satisfy the soul. Even more pressing is the fact that whatever we accumulate in this life due to our activities will be taken away by the influence of eternal time in the form of death. We may be very proud of our nice material situation, with a bank balance, healthy body and happy family, but at the end of the body we will have to start all over again and again eternally, remaining ever unsatisfied. So the jiva [spirit soul] always has free will and that continues even when under the control of material nature, although in a limited way. We can choose from two consciousnesses: God-consciousness, or Krishna consciousness, and material consciousness. In the former consciousness, we are in our real position of freedom, where we can choose out of our complete free will to serve Krishna in myriad ways in a blissful eternal life. Material consciousness means just the opposite: One is pushed by the relentless senses to enjoy and control everything one surveys. Free will is limited to being pushed from enjoyment to another, and one must struggle to service and maintain the material body in order to do so. In Krishna-consciousness, everything done for Krishna elevates one higher and higher on the spiritual plane, because work in Krishna consciousness is transcendental, it incurs no reaction. In material consciousness every action done for our sense enjoyment leads to more material bodies. Free will is always there and it is the cause of our eternal happiness or eternal distress. Krishna is not inimical towards the living entities, He is their dear-most friend and always has their interests in heart. Therefore, this material world exists as a manifestation of the mercy of Krishna. It is not that God has forsaken us, and he is some frustrated old man in he sky who's just taking out that frustration on us. It's like a prison. The government doesn't want people to go to prison, but they are forced by the criminals to create a place for them. They would rather everyone be a happy and good citizen, but at the same time they cannot check the illegal desires of the would-be criminals. Therefore, a prison-house is erected and such a place, although the inmates may think it unfair, is actually for their own benefit. It rectifies their mentality so one day they might enjoy the same freedom and happiness that is automatic once their attitude and behavior is nice. In the same way, the material world is against our interest to be happy because everything we do here, be it pious or impious, will cause a reaction from material nature by which we have to enjoy or suffer the result in a temporary material body, and that can never make the eternal self that we are happy. That unhappiness eventually pushes to question, "why am I here?' and "why should I have to die?". Our real happiness is to understand the proper use of our free will: Instead of using it to try and lord it over everything, we should serve Krishna in love and devotion, because actually it is our own attitude of trying to be Krishna that creates our unhappy position, not the other way around.

Here we are publishing an exchange between our viewer and the B.L.I.S.S. founder Purujit Dasa. If you have a question you would like to ask, please do not hesitate to contact us. Patrick Coyne, USA I have a question Prabhu, in the video Why Mayavadis are atheists. That we are in this material world due to wanting to control or be like God or be the enjoyer. Then you say in the spiritual world there is only service and we were in the spiritual world before we came to the material world. I guess I don’t understand how we can fall or want to be the enjoyer if the spiritual world is all fulfilling. This has been an ongoing issue for me and many devotees, and it divides alit of devotees can you please explain or do a pod cast on it,,, Thank you for your service I enjoy listening Purujit Dasa responds: Hare Krishna, dear Patrick! Again thank you for your thoughtful question and thank you for listening our podcast and following our social media. You write: "we are in this material world due to wanting to control or be like God or be the enjoyer. Then you say in the spiritual world there is only service and we were in the spiritual world before we came to the material world. Of course, there might be different opinions on this topic, but since we want to attain perfection of Krsna consciousness, we must take the opinion of a perfect authority, who is coming in a disciplic succession. In fact no genuine devotee will claim anything of his own speculation but simply present the message as it is coming through the disciplic succession from Lord Krishna Himself. Since the Supreme Personality of Godhead is all-knowing and all-perfect, if we get in touch with the bona fide spiritual master coming in a bona fide succession, our information is perfect. This is called avaroha-pantha (descending process of acquiring knowledge) So whatever I have presented in the class I have learned from my spiritual master Srila Prabhupada only and since Srila Prabhupada is a bona fide spiritual master coming in disciplic succession that knowledge is perfect.  I will now show you how Srila Prabhupada explains this topic and you may then deliberate on the topic freely and make your own conclusion. First of all, please note the following references from Srila Prabhupada's books on the topic of jiva's fall from the Lord's abode: "Both the Lord and the living entity, being qualitatively spirit soul, have the tendency for peaceful enjoyment, but when the part of the Supreme Personality of Godhead unfortunately wants to enjoy independently, without Krsna, he is put into the material world, where he begins his life as Brahma and is gradually degraded to the status of an ant or a worm in stool." (Bhag. 9.24.58, purport) "The marginal jiva, or living entity, misuses his independence and becomes averse to the eternal service attitude when he independently thinks he is not energy but the energetic. This misconception of his own existence leads him to the attitude of lording it over material nature." (Cc. Adi 5.66, purport) In the same purport, Srila Prabhupada further says: "One should understand that due to his desire to enjoy himself in competition with Krsna, the living entity comes into material existence." (Cc. Madhya 20.117, purport) If one contradicts the bona fide acharya, or belittle his position, it is an indication that such a person is outside of the disciplic succession or sampradaya. We should not associate with such persons because we will never be able to understand the science of Krsna perfectly by their speculative understanding. A siksa-guru who instructs against the instruction of spiritual[master], he is not a siksa-guru. He is a demon. (Bhagavad-gita 17.1-3 -- Honolulu, July 4, 1974 ) As indicated in Bhagavad-gita, whenever we find someone extraordinary preaching the bhakti cult, we should know that he is especially empowered by Lord Visnu or Lord Krsna. As confirmed in Caitanya-caritamrta, krsna-sakti vina nahe tara pravartana: one cannot explain the glories of the holy name of the Lord without being specifically empowered by Him. If one criticizes or finds fault with such an empowered personality, one is to be considered an offender against Lord Vissnu and is punishable. Even though such offenders may dress as Vaisnavas with false tilaka and mala, they are never forgiven by the Lord if they offend a pure Vaisnava. (Sb 4.19.37) keha ta' acarya ajnaya, keha ta' svatantra sva-mata kalpana kare daiva-paratantra Some of the disciples strictly accepted the orders of the acarya, and others deviated, independently concocting their own opinions under the spell of daivi-maya. PURPORT This verse describes the beginning of a schism. When disciples do not stick to the principle of accepting the order of their spiritual master, immediately there are two opinions. Any opinion different from the opinion of the spiritual master is useless. One cannot infiltrate materially concocted ideas into spiritual advancement. That is deviation. There is no scope for adjusting spiritual advancement to material ideas. (Adi 12.10) So it is very important first of all that you understand that the conclusion should be taken from the bona fide spiritual master. Every conditioned soul is suffering from the four defects of material consciousness: He has imperfect senses, he commit mistakes, he falls into illusion and he has a tendency to cheat. It is therefore impossible for a conditioned soul to give perfect knowledge. Especially on the topic you have raised. We do not even understand what this material universe is, how can we come to a perfect conclusion in regards to the question of our original fall down or beginning of the samsara cycle. That is completely beyond our understanding. Srila Prabhupada writes: With one's limited senses, one cannot argue about that which is inconceivable. Therefore the inconceivable is called acintya, that which is beyond cintya, our thoughts and arguments. Acintya refers to that which we cannot contemplate but have to accept. Srila Jiva Gosvami has said that unless we accept acintya in the Supreme, we cannot accommodate the conception of God. This must be understood. Therefore we say that the words of sastra should be taken as they are, without change, since they are beyond our arguments. Acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet: "That which is acintya cannot be ascertained by argument." People generally argue, but our process is not to argue but to accept the Vedic knowledge as it is. When Krsna says, "This is superior, and this is inferior," we accept what He says. It is not that we argue, "Why is this superior and that inferior?" If one argues, for him the knowledge is lost. (SB 10.13.57) There of course might be different spiritual masters besides Srila Prabhupada or even different disciplic succession, but the principle of surrender to one guru is the same. One guru cannot contradict another guru. Srila Prabhupada says: Although hundreds and thousands of acaryas have come and gone, the message is one. The real guru cannot be two, for the real guru does not speak differently from his predecessors. Some spiritual teachers say, "In my opinion you should do this," but this is not a guru. Such so-called gurus are simply rascals. The genuine guru has only one opinion, and that is the opinion expressed by Krsna, Vyasadeva, Narada, Arjuna, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and the Gosvamis. (SSR 2a: What Is a Guru?) Then you write: "I guess I don’t understand how we can fall or want to be the enjoyer if the spiritual world is all fulfilling." Yes, on one hand it is a logical conclusion.If the spiritual world is all-fulfilling, there should be no desire left unfulfilled. If Krsna is all-powerful and all-loving there would should be no question of a soul situated in the spiritual world lacking anything. However, there is a different logic also and with your permission I would like to point your attention to this different type of logical and reasonable argument on this same point. It is concluded by all the Vedic scriptures that the soul is eternally a minute part and parcel of the Lord. It is not as the Mayavadis say that at the time of liberation the soul becomes one with the Supreme. This is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita by the Lord Himself: Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be. (Bg 2.12) Because the Lord is the supreme and all-pervading, He is acyuta, or infallible. He cannot be covered by maya since maya is only His emanation.It would be illogical for maya to be superior to God. since the very word refers to the supreme. Srila Prabhupada writes: The living entity is bewildered in so many ways. For instance, when he thinks himself God, unceremoniously, he actually falls into the last snare of nescience. If a living entity is God, then how can he become bewildered by nescience? Does God become bewildered by nescience? If so, then nescience, or Satan, is greater than God. (Bg 5.16 purport) The minute part and parcel however is fallible because of his quality of minuteness. He is spirit eternal, full of knowledge, full of bliss but in a minute form and therefore there is always a possibility for the soul to become covered by maya. Srila Prabhupada befittingly compares the living entity to a spark of fire in the following purport: The Mayavadi cannot explain how the individual soul came into existence simply by ignorance and consequently became covered by the illusory energy. Nor was it ever possible to cut the individual souls from the original Supreme Soul; rather, the individual souls are eternally separated parts of the Supreme Soul. Because they are atomic individual souls eternally (sanatana), they are prone to be covered by the illusory energy, and thus they become separated from the association of the Supreme Lord, just as the sparks of a fire, although one in quality with the fire, are prone to be extinguished when out of the fire. In the Varaha Purana, the living entities are described as separated parts and parcels of the Supreme. They are eternally so, according to the Bhagavad-gita also. So, even after being liberated from illusion, the living entity remains a separate identity, as is evident from the teachings of the Lord to Arjuna. Arjuna became liberated by the knowledge received from Krsna, but he never became one with Krsna. (Bg 2.23 purport) Therefore as minute parts and parcels, we are eternally subordinate to the Lord. He is the supreme enjoyer and we are the enjoyed. This is our constitutional position. The spiritual world is all-fulfilling for the minute souls only within the parameters of this constitutional position. As soon as they desire to assume the position of the Supreme controller, the Lord fulfills their desire by covering them by maya. Thus the living entity takes his position in the material world, which is a covered portion of the spiritual sky. This is not a punishment from the side of the Lord, rather it is the kindness of the Lord to fulfill anything the minute soul wants. In this connection His Divine Grace Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada remarks:  “Some may ask why the all-powerful God gives facilities to the living entities for enjoying this material world and so lets them fall into the trap of the illusory energy. The answer is that if the Supreme Lord as Supersoul does not give such facilities, then there is no meaning to independence.” (Bg.7.21 purport) To say that the soul can never fall down from the Lord's abode brings with it many undesirable subsequent conclusions tinged with impersonalism. Namely that: a) The soul does not love Krsna out of his free will and thus there is no meaning to their relationship. b) The soul's minuteness becomes meaningless. He becomes equal to the Lord in all respects. There are a few conversations where Srila Prabhupada is asked this very same question. This is one of many: Hrdayananda: Many times, the professors, they say that "If God..., if God were actually all..., all-good and all-perfect, then when He created us, we would also be all-good..." Prabhupada: Yes. But you are contaminated. You are all-good. That's a fact. Because you are part and parcel of God, you cannot be bad. But you are contaminated. Hrdayananda: Well, they say that "Even..., even if I have the potential... Even to say that I ha..." Prabhupada: You have got the potential. That's it. Hrdayananda: But if I say that... If I, I'm originally in the spiritual world, but even the potential to fall down is an imperfection in the creation. Prabhupada: No, potential does not fall down. Just like a child has got the potency to pass the M.A. examination. So he has to be educated. If you don't educate him, he'll remain a foolish child. So we are educating to develop that potentiality. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti sadhya kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya [Cc Madhya 22.107] [Pure love for Krsna is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens.] They, that potentiality is eternal. God is eternal. We are eternal. Our relationship eternal. Everything is eternal. But because we are small, minute fragments, sometimes we fall down. Hrdayananda: They say, "God should have..., God should have created us so that we..." Prabhupada: Why you should dictate God? God has created perfectly. He has given you independence. You fall down. It is your fault. God has made you perfect, given you independence. But if you misuse your independence, you fall down. Just like government gives everyone opportunity. Why do you become criminal and go to the jail? That is your fault. Hrdayananda: They say that God should have created us so that we... Prabhupada: Why "should have created"? He has created already perfect. Because you are perfect, therefore you have got the independence to misuse. You are not a dead stone. That is perfection. Ye yatha mam prapadyante [Bg 4.11]. [All of them -- as they surrender unto Me -- I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Prtha.] You can go anywhere, sarva-ga. You can go to the Vaikuntha. Yanti deva-vrata devan [Bg 9.25]. [Those who worship the demigods will take birth among the demigods; those who worship ghosts and spirits will take birth among such beings; those who worship ancestors go to the ancestors; and those who worship Me will live with Me.] You can go to the higher planets. You can go to the hell. When you go to the hell, it is your choice. God has given you all perfection. Purnam idam purnam adah purnat purnam udacyate [Isopanisad, Invocation]. Everything is complete, perfect, and because you are perfect, you have got the independence. But misusing that independence, you are imperfect. Again, reviving your independence, you can become perfect, although you are imperfect now. That is Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness movement means raising the imperfect to the perfect platform. That is Krsna consciousness. Other fools, they say, "We are perfect now." In a fallen condition also, they're thinking perfect. That is maya. Asurim raksasim caiva mohinim prakrtim sritah [Bg 9.12]. [Those who are thus bewildered are attracted by demonic and atheistic views. In that deluded condition, their hopes for liberation, their fruitive activities, and their culture of knowledge are all defeated.] Krsna has made you perfect. There is no doubt about it. Just like some of our student, all of a sudden, they deviate, go away. So what is that? Our movement is imperfect, or he's imperfect? Hrdayananda: He's imperfect. Prabhupada: He's imperfect. Our movement is perfect. But he becomes imperfect by his misuse of independence. He thinks that "This is nice," and goes to hell. What can be done? That independence is there. That is perfectness. Morning Walk – December 6, 1973, Los Angeles As I said we will try to make a podcast on this topic and we will be posting more of these conversations on expandthebliss.com where you can go through them. I hope this helps. your servant Purujit Dasa Patrick Coyne Haribol thank you for such an elaborate answer, you are very kind, and yes we have to follow Prabhupada in what he said. I guess what confused me the most in the B.G. Prabhupada says once you are liberated and enter into the spiritual world and you never return to the material, so does that mean you can be not liberated and be in the spiritual world be falling to the material plane. And if we want to be the enjoyer then is there jealous in the spiritual world,,, thanks again can’t wait for the pod cast, all glory’s to Srila Prabhupada Purujit Dasa Hare Krsna, dear Patrick. You are very much welcome. I am supplying you a quote you might appreciate that answers your particular question. We will post more on expandthebliss.com on this topic next week along with the podcast, so please stay tuned. Guru-krpa: They say that in the spiritual world we say that everything is peaceful, there is no birth and death, there is no material conditions, so if the conditions in the spiritual world are so nice and everything is spiritually, everything is spiritual, how is it that one can become envious of Krsna in such conditions? This is a very... Acyutananda: The original sin. Sudama: Why we are envious... Guru-krpa: How is it that, if everything is free from envy, free from bad material elements... Prabhupada: Yes. Guru-krpa: How is it that... Prabhupada: That is independence. That is independence. In spite of all these things, because you have got little independence, you can violate. Sudama: It is very hard thing to understand. Prabhupada: No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult. Acyutananda: It is not difficult. They don't want to understand. Prabhupada: Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel... Acyutananda: But in the Gita, it says,"Once coming there, he never returns." Prabhupada: But if he likes, he can return. Acyutananda: He can return. Prabhupada: That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown. (Conversation, Mayapur, February 19, 1976)

His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta explains this question in one of his purport to the Bhagavad-gita As It Is. God has given independence to everyone; therefore, if a person desires to have material enjoyment and wants very sincerely to have such facilities from the material demigods, the Supreme Lord, as Supersoul in everyone's heart, understands and gives facilities to such persons. As the supreme father of all living entities, He does not interfere with their independence, but gives all facilities so that they can fulfill their material desires. Some may ask why the all-powerful God gives facilities to the living entities for enjoying this material world and so lets them fall into the trap of the illusory energy. The answer is that if the Supreme Lord as Supersoul does not give such facilities, then there is no meaning to independence. Therefore He gives everyone full independence-whatever one likes -- but His ultimate instruction we find in the Bhagavad-gita: man should give up all other engagements and fully surrender unto Him. That will make man happy. (Bg 7.21 purport)

In this article we explain what a surrender to a guru actually means and how this differs from the so-called guru relationship of the Mayavadi school of thought. There have always been two types of transcendentalists: the impersonalists and the personalists. Both of them seek liberation from the illusory identification with the body in their respective ways. The impersonalists' idea of liberation beyond the body means annihilation of an individual self and merging with the Brahman, which is the all-pervading aspect of the Supreme Absolute Truth. The personalists, however, do not want to give up their individuality. Quite the opposite, the perfection of the personal path is brought about by full revival of individuality without any trace of material contamination and engaging the pure self in devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The following example illustrates the distinct differences between the two types of transcendentalists. There are many rivers, but ultimately they all flow within the ocean and thus cease to exist as separate rivers. This can be compared to the impersonalists' idea. There might be many individual beings, but at the time to liberation, they all become Brahman. Yet, within the rivers there can be found many living entities such as fish. When the river flows into the ocean, the fish continue to live. So according to the personalists' conception, even though the material body might merge with the mass of material energy, the individual souls (jivatmas) continue to exist even after liberation and in spiritual bodies (svarupa) they then serve the Supreme Lord Sri Krsna in one of the five different rasas or relationships. As the Bhagavad-gita confirms: Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be. (Bg.2.11) Lord Krsna clearly says here that individuality both ours and the Lord's is an eternal fact and the Lord is eternally the recipient of the individual souls' service.Furthermore the Lord says nainam chindanti sastrani : "The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon" and therefore the idea of Brahman divided into innumerable parts at one point and merging together is not supported by the statements of the Bhagavad-gita. In fact, the philosophy of the impersonalists is just like throwing out a baby along with the bath water. The bodily conception of life is certainly an illusion and one should get rid of it as he gets rid of a bathing water. However, one should not discard the very idea of individual existence just as one should not loose the baby while throwing away the water in which the baby was bathed. For a devotee, the material body is the gift of the Lord and since the Lord is true, the material body is also true. It is not false. The devotee uses the material body in the service of the Lord.  Iron rod which is put into the fire ultimately becomes firey by gradual heating. Similarly material body used for spiritual activities becomes spiritualized by gradual advancement in Krsna consciousness. One then serves the Lord in one's pure spiritual body (siddha-deha). Materialistic conception of “body” however is that it is perishable, full of ignorance and completely miserable. Therefore, people in general carry the same idea in mind when they are informed of the personal forms of the Lord and His devotees. For such materialistic men, the form of the gigantic material manifestation is supreme. Consequently they imagine that in the ultimate stage everything is impersonal. Because they are too materially absorbed and because they personally experience the pangs of material existence arising from material activities, the concept of personality after liberation from matter very much frightens them. When they are informed that spiritual life is also individual, personal and full of activities, they become afraid of becoming persons again. A diseased man also eats, also sleeps and he also evacuates, but all his activities are painful due to his disease. If he hears that in the healthy stage there is also sleeping, there is also eating and and there is also evacuating, he thinks it is the same as in the diseased condition. Similarly, an impersonalist being disgusted by material existence, wants to give up the very idea of individuality and make all his activities zero. The personalist's conception of surrender is different. Lord Krsna says: Abandon all varieties of religion and simply surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear. (Bg.18.66) While the impersonal idea denies the distinction between the Supreme and the part and parcel of Supreme, the personalists endeavor to solely give up the sense of overlordship. They willingly abandon the false idea of being the ultimate controller and they try to satisfy the desires of the Lord. Their individual sense of choice never diminishes. They engage in the service of the Lord in full surrender by their free will and with such free will they engage in varieties of services to the Lord. Therefore, after explaining the whole theistic science of the Bhagavad-gita and chalking up the path of perfection, the Lord concludes: Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do. (Bg. 18.63) The Lord lets the individual to "do as he wishes to do".  This is because one has to voluntarily surrender to the Lord. Such surrender is not caused by anything but the pure free will of the soul proper. One's decision to  surrender to will of the Lord is never hampered by anything. Krsna is prepared to bestow His mercy upon all living entities, and as soon as a living entity desires the Lord's mercy, the Lord immediately gives him an opportunity to meet a bona fide spiritual master. The bona fide spiritual master appears to the living entity as soon as the living entity desires to solve the miseries of material existence, namely birth, death, old age and disease. brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva guru-krsna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija Madhya 19.151 ”According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Krsna. By the mercy of both Krsna and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service." Madhya 19.151 This is further confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita: The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy. (18.61) The Vedas, like the Mundaka Upanisad, as well as the Svetasvatara Upanisad compares a relationship of two kinds of souls residing in the heart to two friendly birds sitting on the same tree. One of the birds (the individual atomic soul) is eating the fruits of the tree, and the other bird (Paramatma) is simply watching His friend. Although as birds they are the same in quality, one of these two is captivated by the fruits of the material tree, while the other is simply witnessing the activities of His friend. Although they are friends, one is still the master and the other is the servant. The jiva soul is struggling very hard on the tree of the material body, but as soon as he agrees to accept the other bird as the supreme spiritual master, the subordinate bird immediately becomes free from all lamentations. Both the Mundaka Upanisad (3.1.2) and Svetasvatara Upanisad (4.7) confirm this statement as follows: "Although the two birds are on the same tree, the eating bird is fully engrossed with anxiety and moroseness as the enjoyer of the fruits of the tree. But if in some way or other he turns his face to his friend who is the Lord and knows His glories—at once the suffering bird becomes free from all anxieties." The Lord in the heart manifests externally in the form of the bona fide spiritual master and under his guidance, the jiva soul learns how to cultivate spiritual consciousness. The spiritual consciousness is already there in the heart of every living entity. It is simply reawakened by the spiritual sound vibration coming from the channel of the bona fide spiritual master. ”Pure love for Krsna is eternally established in the hearts of the living entities. It is not something to be gained from another source. When the heart is purified by hearing and chanting, this love naturally awakens." (Madhya 22.107) \In order for such hearing and chanting of the glories of the Lord, executed with the sole aim to re-awaken our eternal relationship with the Lord, to take place, both the bona fide spiritual master uncontaminated by the material modes of nature and the receptive disciple must be present. The combination is compared by the acaryas to the interaction between husband and wife. If the husband is potent and the wife is fertile, by their mutual dealings, conception takes place. Similarly if the spiritual master is bona fide and authorized by the disciplic succession and the disciple is sincere, the hearing and chanting of the Lord has a spiritual effect and the seed of devotional service fructifies. However, if the eagerness on the part of the disciple is absent, the instruction of the spiritual master goes in vain.Therefore a bona fide spiritual master does not accept a disciple who is not eager to hear from him. There is no necessity of approaching a spiritual master unless one is in need of solving the real problems of life. One who does not know how to ask the spiritual master proper questions has no business to approach him. Therefore one must be jijnasu, inquisitive. He must inquire from the spiritual master about the ultimate aim of human life. Questions on how to improve one's bodily enjoyment in the material world are deliberately left unanswered by a bona fide spiritual master. Furthermore, one should render service. Unless one renders service to the spiritual master, the inquiries on the spiritual matters will not be effective. The impersonalist philosophers declare that the highest stage of knowledge is reached when the knower, the knowledge, and the object of knowledge become one entity. From their point of view then ultimately there is no difference between the spiritual master and the disciple -both are one, both are Brahman. They say, only in the state of illusion(maya), do the disciple and the spiritual master manifest as two individual beings. They fail to explain why Brahman becomes temporarily covered by maya. This is why they are called Mayavadis. They think everything is maya. Sripada Sankaracarya, who is the founder of the Mayavada school of thought recommended worship of 5 demigods (pancopasana) for his followers. Such worship was meant only to help those who are still in the bodily concept of life. It was a facility for the neophyte progressing in the spiritual knowledge, to imagine some form of the Brahman. Sädhakänäà hitvärthäya brahmaëo rüpa-kalpanaù. However,  according to the Mayavadi theory, ultimately such worship should be abandoned. Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada explains: “The example given by them is that you rise up to a upper place with a wooden stair, and as soon as you reach there, you throw it away, so that you'll not be able to come back again. Similarly, their philosophy is: "With some imagination of form, you worship, and as soon as you realize Brahman, throw it away. No more." (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.22 -- Los Angeles, June 19, 1972) The Mayavadi concept of spiritual master is similar. They think that the soul (impersonal Brahman) of the spiritual master incarnates into a material body for the purpose of guiding those who are still in illusion. They say that the Brahman takes a form of a guru in a bodily form so the souls trapped in bodily conception of life can relate to him and as soon as they reach perfection the relationship with the spiritual master ends. Yasomatinandana: Spiritual master gives knowledge, and then a disciple is eternally indebted to spiritual master. Prabhupada: Yes. Yasomatinandana: It is not that, like Mayavadis, they serve the spiritual master in the beginning and then they... Prabhupada: Then they... Yasomatinandana: ...themselves become... Prabhupada: ...throw him away, "Go away. I have now learned." Guru-mara-vidya, to, the knowledge of how to kill guru. Guru-mara-vidya. Their, the philosophy is that you cannot rise up. You take a ladder. But as soon as you rise, throw away the ladder. No more. No more needed. That is Mayavada philosophy. (Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles) For the Mayavadis therefore reaching perfection necessarily means relinquishing the connection with the spiritual master. Although Narottama dasa Thakura sings: "One who has opened my eyes, my spiritual master, he's my father, life after life," the Mayavadis say: "Go away now." The devotee never rejects the spiritual master and he continues to honor him even after reaching the stage of perfection. Mr. Malhotra: Other traditions, guru disciple, then the disciple becomes guru, then disciple. The gurus may change. Prabhupada: They cannot change. If there are change of guru, the disciple acts, but does not, he'll never say that I have become equal or one with guru. That is not so. Mr. Malhotra: I am thinking about this, Swamiji, that your Guru Maharaja is preaching through you, and you are preaching through them. Prabhupada: Yes. Mr. Malhotra: So disciple is guru through his disciples. Prabhupada: That's all right. Evam parampara praptam [Bg. 4.2]. But that does not become, he has become. He may be representative of guru, representative of God, but it does not mean that he has become God. Mr. Malhotra: But he becomes guru with his disciples. Prabhupada: That's alright. Mr. Malhotra: Never equal to his guru. Prabhupada: Not equal, representative. I send one representative of this man, and he may be very expert, doing very good business, still he cannot be equal to me. He is acting as my representative, that's another thing. But not that he has become the original proprietor. Mr. Malhotra: But as your disciples, you are taken as guru. Prabhupada: But they will never say that they have become equal to me. "I have advanced to be my guru." Never say. Just like this boy, he is offering obeisances. He may be expert in preaching more than me, but he knows that "I am subordinate." Otherwise how he shall offer obeisances? He can think, "Oh, now I am so learned. I am so advanced. Why shall I accept him as superior?" No. That continues. Even after my death, after my disappearance, he will offer obeisances to my picture. Mr. Malhotra: But amongst his disciples he will be worshiped... Prabhupada: That's all right, but he remains a disciple of his guru. He will never say that "Now I have become guru, so I don't care for my guru." He will never say. Just like I am doing, but I am worshiping my guru still. So I remain subordinate to my guru, always. Even though I have become guru, still I am subordinate to my guru. (Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona) In this connection, there is also an instructive pastime in the life of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, namely in His meeting the Mayavadi leader Prakasananda Saraswati. Prakasananda challenged Lord Caitanya to explain why He simply chants and dances while the engagement of the sannyasi is to study the Vedanta. To this Lord Caitanya answered: guru more murkha dekhi' karila sasan [Cc. Adi 7.71]. "My Guru Maharaja saw Me a fool number one, and he has chastised Me." He is God Himself, but he is showing us the example that for a devotee there is never a point where he becomes artificially proud of being liberated, or proud of being God. His liberation is always depend on the mercy of his spiritual master and he remains always an infinitesimal parcel of the Lord prone to a fall down. Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada comments: Liberated soul never says that "I am liberated." As soon as he says "liberated," he's a rascal. A liberated soul will never say that "I am liberated." That is liberated. Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He is God -- guru more murkha dekhi' karila sasan [Cc. Adi 7.71]. "My Guru Maharaja saw Me a fool number one, and he has chastised Me." He's God. This is the example. If one remains always a servant ever-lastingly of guru, then he is liberated. And as soon as he thinks that he is liberated, he's a rascal. That is the teaching of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Guru more murkha dekhi'. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is murkha? Why He's posing Himself that murkha? "I am fool number one." That means that is liberation. You must be ready always to be chastised by guru. Then he's liberated. And as soon as he thinks that "I am beyond this chastisement, I am liberated," he's a rascal. Why Caitanya Mahaprabhu says guru more murkha dekhi' karila sasan? This is sahajiya-vada. He is thinking, "Oh I have become liberated. I don't require any direction of my guru. I'm liberated." Then he's rascal. (Room Conversation -- August 16, 1976, Bombay) Since the impersonalists believe that the Brahman must manifest in a concrete material body to guide the neophyte who might not be able to yet relate to the impersonal concept of the Absolute, they insist that there must be a guru in a bodily form always present to continue the disciplic succession. Thus a bona fide acarya, they say, must appoint a so-called living sadhu to succeed him. But this idea goes against the very principle of the minute independence of the jiva discussed above. If the successor acarya is selected by the predecessor and not by the disciple himself, where is the surrender on the part of the disciple? The great acarya might have given a suggestion about the successive acharya's qualifications, but the act of surrender itself is always an individual choice based on hearing. It is for this reason for example that Lord Krsna presents to us the Vedic knowledge. Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada explains: ... not only does a living entity enjoy or suffer in this world according to the dictation from the Supreme Lord situated locally in the heart, but he receives the opportunity to understand Vedas from Him. If one is serious to understand the Vedic knowledge, then Krsna gives the required intelligence. Why does He present the Vedic knowledge for understanding? Because a living entity individually needs to understand Krsna. (Bg 15.15 purport) Similarly, without hearing sufficiently from the spiritual master and understanding his instructions, there is no question of surrender to him. The real consideration for choosing a spiritual master therefore is not a formal appointment from the previous acarya, but whether the master is conversant with the science of Krsna. This is confirmed by Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu: kiba vipra, kiba nyasi, sudra kene naya yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei ‘guru' haya "Whether one is a brahmana, a sannyasi or a sudra -- regardless of what he is -- he can become a spiritual master if he knows the science of Krsna." (Madhya 8.128) Furthermore Srila Jiva Gosvami, directly advises all the devotees of the Hare Krsna movement not to accept a spiritual master in terms of hereditary or customary social and ecclesiastical conventions. The disciple is always left to choose his spiritual master on his own. Indeed, none of the previous acaryas in the disciplic succession were ever appointed by their predecessors. The successor acarya proves himself by his personal capacity and recruits disciples from the ranks of non-devotee class of men by preaching. Srila Prabhupada explains: Prabhupada: So far designation is concerned, the spiritual master authorizes every one of his disciple. But it is up to the disciple to carry out the order, able to carry out or not. It is not that spiritual master is partial, he designates one and rejects other. He may do that. If the other is not qualified, he can do that. But actually his intention is not like that. He wants that each and every one of his disciple become as powerful as he is or more than that. That is his desire. Just like father wants every son to be as qualified or more qualified than the father. But it is up to the student or to the son to raise himself to that standard. (Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego) The spiritual master only speaks what Krsna says. Therefore we have to hear and see whether the spiritual master speaks what Krsna says before we surrender to him. One must select the spiritual master with proper discrimination and not blindly. The sastras such as Hari bhakta vilasa enjoin that before we take a guru we study him carefully to find out whether we can surrender to him. We should not accept a guru suddenly out of fanaticism. It is not a cheap thing. After we accept the spiritual master we must follow his instructions. Therefore it is important that we test whether the person is qualified to be a spiritual master. The qualification of a spiritual master is that he must have realized the conclusion of the scriptures by deliberation and arguments and thus be able to convince others of these conclusions. So unless one is at least conversant with the preliminary knowledge of transcendental matters, how will he ascertain the bona fides of a spiritual master? For instance, if we want to purchase something, we must at least have some idea of what that thing is, otherwise we will be cheated. If we want to purchase a mango from the market, we must at least know what type of food a mango is and what it looks like. Therefore one's independent thoughtfulness is always recommended. One should not give too much importance to institutional appointments, but simply consider with cool head who is the bona fide spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada describes the consequences of mixing the pure Vaisnava philosophy with impersonal ideas by giving example of a great institution which was lost due to ambition of motivated disciples to occupy the post of their spiritual master. Such is the history of Gaudiya Matha society of his Guru Maharaja His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. At a certain point of his divine lila, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta had to undergo surgical operation and therefore made a scrap paper in case he would leave this mortal plane. On the paper he listed three disciples who would have become the trustees of his Gaudiya Matha. One of the disciples kept the paper and later this was presented in the high-court and a property was given to him. On this basis, after Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's demise, the disciple artificially became a so-called acarya. But the other disciples were not satisfied and in order to counteract him, they conspired and voted in another false acarya. In this way two false acarya groups began to fight over the assets of the institution. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta instructed his disciples to form a governing body and conduct missionary activities cooperatively. He did not designate anyone to become his successor.  Srila Prabhupada explains: ...none of them were advised by Guru Maharaja to become acarya. His idea was "Let them manage; then whoever will be actual qualified for becoming acarya, they will elect. Why I should enforce upon them?" That was his plan. "Let them manage by strong governing body, as it is going on. Then acarya will come by his qualification." But they wanted that... Because at heart, they were, "After demise of Guru, I shall become acarya," "I shall become acarya." So all the acaryas began fight. (Room Conversation with American Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay) Therefore a sadhu comes out automatically by preaching work. A bona fide acarya is self-effulgent. He shines like the sun and there is no need to bring any torchlight to point at him. He shines through his teachings and it is up to us to accept him or not. This is the real meaning of surrender. Hanuman: One thing he's saying, this gentleman, and I would like to know, is your successor named or your successor will... Prabhupada: My success is always there. Yes. Just like the sun is there always. It may come before your vision or not. The sun is there. But if you are fortunate, you come before the sun. Otherwise you remain in darkness. Sun is open to everyone. Our Krsna consciousness movement -- Krsna is open to everyone. But if you are fortunate, you come to the light. If you are unfortunate, do not. That is your choice. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. You do it. Now it is your choice. You surrender to Krsna or don't surrender. That is your business (Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico)