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This is a recording of yesterday's celebration of Lord Narasingha's appearance day in BLISS London with His Grace Purujit Dasa.

This is a classic and comprehensive explanation of the purpose of the Hare Krishna movement and it's signature activity, chanting Hare Krishna, given by His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the movement's spiritual master. This transcendental vibration of chanting of Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna , Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare is the sublime method of reviving our Krsna consciousness. As living spiritual souls we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter since time immemorial, our consciousness is now polluted by the material atmosphere. In this polluted concept of life, we are trying to exploit the resources of material nature, but actually we are becoming more and more entangled in her complexities. This illusion is called maya -- our hard struggle for existence for winning over the stringent laws of material nature. This illusory struggle against material nature can at once be stopped by the revival of our Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. It is the original energy of the living entity. When we hear the transcendental vibration, this consciousness is revived, and therefore the process of chanting Hare Krsna is recommended by authorities for this age. By practical experience, also, we can perceive that by chanting this maha-mantra, or "the great chanting for deliverance," one can at once feel transcendental ecstasy from the spiritual stratum. When one is actually on the plane of spiritual understanding, surpassing the stages of sense, mind, and intelligence, one is situated on the transcendental plane. This chanting of Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna , Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare is directly enacted from the spiritual platform, surpassing all lower stages of consciousness, namely sensual, mental, and intellectual. There is no need to understand the language of the mantra, nor is there any need of mental speculation, nor any intellectual adjustment for chanting this maha-mantra. It springs automatically from the spiritual platform, and as such anyone can take part in this transcendental sound vibration without any previous qualification and dance in ecstasy. We have seen it practically -- even a child can take part in the chanting, or even a dog can take part in it. The chanting should be heard, however, from the lips of a pure devotee of the Lord, so that the immediate effect can be achieved. As far as possible, chanting from the lips of nondevotees should be avoided. Milk touched by the lips of a serpent has poisonous effects. The word Hara is a form of addressing the energy of the Lord. Both Krsna and Rama are forms of directly addressing the Lord, and they mean "the highest pleasure." Hara is the supreme pleasure potency of the Lord. This potency, addressed as Hare, helps us in reaching the Supreme Lord. The material energy, known as maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord. The living entities are described as an energy that is superior to matter. When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the marginal potency is in contact with the supreme spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity. The three words -- namely Hare, Krsna, and Rama -- are the transcendental seeds of the maha-mantra, and the chanting is the spiritual call for the Lord and His internal energy, Hara, for giving protection to the conditioned souls. The chanting is exactly like genuine crying by the child for his mother. Mother Hara helps in achieving the grace of the supreme father Hari, or Krsna, and the Lord reveals Himself to such sincere devotees. Therefore no other means of spiritual realization is as effective in this age as chanting the maha-mantra: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna , Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare. -Srila Prabhupada

The nonsensical fantasies concocted by modern-day scientists are just hilarious. At the same time, the troubling implications of such atheistic and nihilistic philosophies are creating obstacles in people's understanding of self-realization and the truth of the cosmic manifestation as per the Vedic literature (not so hilarious). Bhakta Nejcs and Maitreya rishi dasa refute the unfounded claims of some unscrupulous so-called scientists in this BLISS podcast.

The greatest book of knowledge covering topics such as reincarnation, karma, God, soul, material nature and time is the Srimad Bhagavad-gita and the summum bonum of this great book is that one should give up all other duties and simply surrender to Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead: "Give up all varieties of religiousness, and simply surrender unto Me. I shall protect you from all sinful reactions, you have nothing to fear." (Bg. 18.66) This surrender however is not blind. Quite the opposite, the true surrender is the surrender by everything: the body, mind and soul. It is not that I show surrender to Krsna by my body, but in my mind I do not surrender. Such so-called surrender only leads to hypocrisy and deviation of the true religion. Still, one's mind is turbulent and flickering. One might think to surrender to Krsna at one time, when things are very nice, but when circumstances change and the Lord puts us into tests, one might think the opposite way. Such unsteady nature of the mind is confirmed by Arjuna who has heard the Bhagavadgita from the Lord directly. So we should particularly take note that superior to the mind is the surrender of intelligence, which is the next door neighbour of the soul. Unless one's intelligence is satisfied, why should we give up all our duties and simply surrender to the Supreme Lord? For this reason the Lord has explained the science of self-realization in the Bhagavadgita and many other Vedic scriptures -to give a conditioned soul an opportunity to satisfy his intelligence by reasonable arguments and logic given by the top most intelligence of the Lord Himself. Just as in the Second Chapter Lord Krsna explains that although we had a body of a baby, then a young men, later on grown up persons and in the future old men, similarly we will have another body after death. This is logic, not a sentimental faith. If in the past I had a body, if in the present I have a body, shouldn't I have a body in the future also? Where is the reasoning of not having a body in the future coming from? So the Lord explains very nicely why we should surrender and at the end he says: Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do. (Bg. 18.63) Lord Krsna always respects your freedom: Do what you wish to do. If you would like to surrender to Krsna, it should be because it is something you wish to do. But unless your intelligence is satisfied by some reason and logic why you should wish to do what you wish to do, you will not wish to do it. Many motivated persons do not surrender to Krsna because they wish to do it, but because they get something for it. This is not a surrender, rather it is prostitution and just as a man does not keep further relationship with a prostitute after satisfying his lust, similarly a motivated so-called surrendered persons do not practise the path of devotional service regularly because his mentality is to satisfy his senses, rather than think of the Lord's satisfaction. Krsna says: Those, who on account of their envy towards the principle of Kåñëa consciousness, do not follow My injunctions regularly, are to be considered bereft of all knowledge, befooled, and ruined in their chances to reach perfection. (Bg. 3.32) They do not find pleasure in association of devotees, because the devotees' discussions expose their lack of surrender and understading of the process of surrender. The process of surrender is a long journey which starts with the humble admittence of one's utter foolishness at the lotus feet of the spiritual master. One should always feel foolish in front of the spiritual master as exemplified the best by Lord Caintanya in his conversation with Prakasanandi Saraswati. He said that his spiritual master found him a fool number one and therefore he has forbidden him to read the Vedanta philosophy. Lord Caitanya is the Lord Himself. Is the Lord a fool? No, He is not a fool, but just to show to the neophyte devotee how one should develop a humble attitude he submits to his spiritual master Isvara Puri. One who does not feel foolish before the spirtual master will hardly be able to take part in discussions about the process of surrender in the association of devotees, rather he will prefer the discussions pertaining to the ever-changing mundane character of material affairs, which simply agitate his mind further and further on the path to hell. A serious student of the bhakti yoga should not feel intimitated by such foolish men and should not give up the discussions about the process of surrender as recommended in the Sri Caitanya Caritamrta: A sincere student should not neglect the discussion of such conclusions, considering them controversial, for such discussions strengthen the mind. Thus one's mind becomes attached to Sri Krsna. (CC Adi 2.117) One should not speculate but inquire about the spiritual subject matters from the spiritual master. Thus mind becomes solidified in Krsna consciousness by the help of intelligence. If there is any doubt, one should not surpress it, but immediately bring it to the attention of the spiritual master, so the doubt can be clarified. Surpressing one's doubts and making a show of surrender can benefit neither myself, neither the Lord nor the spiritual master is impressed by such a display of stupidity. By careful examination of the philosophy of Krsna conscioousness, one will ultimately attain a doubtless state of consciousness, where the further progress on the path is dictated from within the heart. In this way, one attains firm faith in the authority of the Lord and that of the spiritual master. By keeping firm faith in the statements of the Lord, namely that He will take care of all sinful reactions for one's misdeeds, one will not hesitate to sacrifice everything for the sake of the Lord and will have no fear. Culprit's mind is always suspicious, therefore fearful persons who doubt the authority of the Lord and the spiritual master can never surrender to the Lord, nor to His devotee and are unable to appreciate their transcendental nature. Fools, faithless and those who are doubtful when it comes to the revealed scriptures fall away from knowledge of Kåñëa consciousness. For the doubtful persons there is nothing good either in this world or in the next, nor any happiness. (Bg. 4.40)

Srila Prabhupada, the Hare Krishna movement founder and spiritual master attacks the modern scientific endeavours in this conversation. Svarupa Damodara: So at some stage during the lifetime, especially in the human form of life... Prabhupada: Yes. Svarupa Damodara: ...one should come to the senses... Prabhupada: That is required. Svarupa Damodara: ...that they are suffering. Prabhupada: Not to speak like mad man. That you are scientists, you are, "We shall solve all the questions." This nonsense thing should stop. They should come to God and understand what God says. Then their life is successful. God Himself is speaking in the Bhagavad-gita. Just try to understand. This is not meant for the dogs and cats; this is meant for persons like Arjuna. Because Bhagavad-gita was taught to Arjuna—for enlightened, ah, topmost class of men. They'll understand. Imam rajarsayo viduh. Evam parampara praptam [Bg. 4.2]. So be yourself amongst the topmost intelligent class of men and try to understand Bhagavad-gita. Then you'll be happy. Devotee (1): Prabhupada, we should go this way. Prabhupada: Yes. But if you want to remain unhappy by your whims, then what... God cannot help you. But you have got the intelli..., independence. Hrdayananda: So Prabhupada, if some people say, "Well, I have no free will," that means that they are actually lazy. Prabhupada: Yes. You have got free will, but must utilize it properly. That is free will. Free will means to utilize it properly. That is free will. Svarupa Damodara: So people... Sometimes Krsna interferes in the free will? Prabhupada: Ah? Svarupa Damodara: Our free will. Prabhupada: Yes. Svarupa Damodara: God interferes. Prabhupada: Yes. That is Krsna's special favor. Because by your free will you are going to hell. If Krsna interferes, that is Krsna's special favor. Just like a child is going to touch fire by free will, and father, "Eh, don't do it." That is his special favor. Devotee: Jaya. Svarupa Damodara: But it's called causeless mercy. Prabhupada: Ah? Causeless mercy. His mercy is already there, but we are denying the mercy. That is the defect of material existence. Yasomatinandana: Spiritual master is the mercy of God? Prabhupada: Yes. God is distributing His mercy from within and from without. Without mercy is the spiritual master. Without means externally, just in front of you. Devotee: Guru-krsna-krpa... Prabhupada: Ahhh! Devotee: ...bhakta-gane. Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] Impersonalist boys... [break] ...who are... [break] Eh? Svarupa Damodara: What is life cannot be proved by experiments. So it is not necessary to talk about life now. Prabhupada: (laughs) Grapes are sour. (devotees laugh) The jackal's philosophy. The jackal came in the orchard of grapes and tried to take some grapes. He jumped many times, and when he failed, "Oh, there is no necessity, it is sour." It is jackal's philosophy. Sly fox. Svarupa Damodara: They say that ultimately there may be no difference... Prabhupada: It is Mayavada, Mayavada. Mayavada says brahma satyam jagan mithya. This world is false. [break] ...so what... [break] ...prepared it, so he is the cause of this construction of the bench. How can you say there is no cause? Hrdayananda: Then they would say... Prabhupada: Eh? Hrdayananda: They would say, "If everything has a cause..." Prabhupada: Yes. Hrdayananda: "...then God also must have a cause." Prabhupada: No, that is God, which has no cause. That is our definition. Everything has cause, but when it comes to a point where there is no more cause, He is cause and effect Himself, then that is God. Devotee (1): So then sometimes they say, "Well, what's to say there will ever be original cause?" Prabhupada: Ah? [break] ...that is original cause. We... [break] ...anvayad itaratas ca arthesu abhijnah svarat. Satyam param dhimahi [SB 1.1.1]. That is actual element, Krsna. aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate iti matva bhajante mam budha bhava-samanvitah [Bg. 10.8] That is... [break] The actual element is so complete that you take the complete from the complete, still it is complete. [break] ...but complete element means you go on taking hundred dollars every moment, still hundred dollars. Devotee (1): They would say that's impossible. Prabhupada: That is their ignorance. There is such a thing. Purnasya purnam. That is Vedic information. Therefore tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. [break] Why not? Just like we can see materially that sunshine, for millions and millions of years it is shiny, still it is the same temperature. Devotee (1): But it's diminishing. Prabhupada: Ah? Devotee: The volume of the sun is diminishing. Prabhupada: No, because it is material. But we can understand that there... Of course, that is no... That touchstone. The touchstone can create gold. So unlimitedly it can create gold. Touchstone. So, even in material experience we'll find there is certain things which creates unlimitedly, still it remains. Devotee (2): There's a starfish. Prabhupada: Ah? Devotee (2): There is a fish called the starfish. It has five arms, and if it loses one arm it will grow that arm back, or that arm will grow back four other arms. Prabhupada: (laughs) Karandhara: That's just material generation. Prabhupada: No, no. I have already said there is an idea that even in the insignificant material element we find this, that one is lost, another's grown. [break] So when the Supreme Absolute Truth is there, how much potency? That is explained in the Vedas. Purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate [Iso Invocation]. This is the idea of the Absolute. You take the complete from the complete, still it is complete. Yasomatinandana: They are so foolish that they have accepted an entity called infinity for the material purposes, from mathematics and everything, and they know that they are limited, but they will not accept that that can be a living entity which is infinite. They can accept that there's a new number called infinity, but they can't understand that there can be a living entity which is infinite too. Prabhupada: Yes. That number is matter. Living entity is always superior. So if in the inferior quality, matter, it is possible, how much it is possible in the superior quality. Yasomatinandana: And they also admit that they're limited, they also admit that they are fallible, so they also... Prabhupada: Because it is matter, it is limited, always limited. Although it appears unlimited. Karandhara: They say they're limited but their process is not. Prabhupada: Ah? Karandhara: They say their process, the scientific process, is not limited. Prabhupada: That is another nonsense. If you are limited, how you can manufacture process... [break] ... is bogus. Karandhara: They don't say... They say they haven't manufactured it. They've just discovered it. Prabhupada: No, if you are limited, how can you discover the unlimited? Then what is the meaning of limited? You cannot discover... Devotee (2): But if I am limited jiva, I can discover Krsna. Prabhupada: Ah? No, you do not discover. Yasomatinandana: It's there in... Prabhupada: But you know from higher authority. You cannot discover it. Devotee (2): That's right. [break] Also... [break] ...does it not? Prabhupada: This is conservation. Devotee (2): Actually the material world is never annihilated. Prabhupada: Purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate [Iso Invocation]. Devotee (2): Doesn't it rest in Visnu's body? Prabhupada: Hm? Devotee (2): When the material world is annihilated, it still is there, is it not? Hrdayananda: That's in the Bhagavad-gita, the five elements are all eternal... Yasomatinandana: I understand that the process is eternal, Prabhupada said. Devotee (2): No, no, no, the five elements are eternal. Yasomatinandana: ...each universe... Prabhupada: What is that? Devotee (2): The five elements are eternal. Prabhupada: Eternal, but it is manifested and not manifested. Just like conservation of energy. That is the... Energy is manifested, sometimes not manifested. [break] But nonmanifested does not mean that... [break] ...energy. Karandhara: But the definition of the Absolute Truth is inconceivable, so it must violate the logic. Prabhupada: Ah? Karandhara: Their logic... Prabhupada: No, it's inconceivable by them, not by us. Therefore we call them fools. It is not inconceivable by us. But so you know the Truth from the Truth, Absolute Truth. A layman or a foolish boy does not know where..., which side the sun will rise. His father can say, "This side it will rise." That is the difference. Because he knows how to suggest which side, because there is reddish, how do you say? Illumination. He knows that "This side it will rise," by the symptom. Both of them, the foolish man and the intelligent man, just at present do not see that where is the sun. But the intelligent man knows "Here is the sun," although the sun is not visible both to the intelligent and foolish man. That intelligence means he knows how to find out where is sun. That is intelligence. And this is not discovery. I am intelligent speaking "This side is sun." It is not my discovery. I have heard from authority that from the eastern direction the sun rises, so I know it. Yasomatinandana: They're so stupid they name it Absolute Truth, but still they try to make their own theories about the Absolute Truth. Prabhupada: Yes. Yasomatinandana: In the Vedic literatures it is stated dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. They can't even understand a simple thing. Prabhupada: No. dharma means the codes, the laws of God. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam... [Bg. 18.66]. This is dharma. Krsna says that "You give up your nonsense manufactured religion. Here is religion. Surrender unto Me." Who will deny? Any religious person will accept it. Who will deny it? This is dharma. Krsna says sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So who will deny? Who is that man who will deny this statement, that one has to surrender to the Supreme? Who will deny it? Therefore it is dharma. You have to submit, just like the government. The government is the supreme, who will deny? Who will deny? Hrdayananda: Only the criminal. Prabhupada: Only the criminal. And he'll be punished, that's all. The result, he'll be punished. Beaten with the shoes of policeman, that's all. Karandhara: Some people get away with it. Prabhupada: For some time he'll get away. You can get away from the police custody, but you cannot get away from maya's custody. That is not possible. Karandhara: But because in all material examples there are exceptions, they say. In all material examples there are exceptions, so they try to find that exception. Prabhupada: Many exceptions are there, mam eva ye prapadyante. Those who are devotee, they are not under maya. Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te. If you do not violate the laws of God... [break] ...there is no question of being... [break]...by maya. If you surrender... [break] ...aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami [Bg. 18.66]. [break] ...if the government protects everyone who is surrendered to the laws of the God, government. The government will give all protection. If he is a law-abiding citizen, he must be given protection, all protection. Hrdayananda: You're too intelligent for the atheists, Prabhupada. Prabhupada: Eh? Hrdayananda: You're too intelligent for the atheists. Prabhupada: (laughs) Atheist means criminal, they're punishable, that's all. And the more people becoming godless, they're being punished by nature. Devotee (2): Actually by the law of conservation of energy reincarnation can be explained. Prabhupada: Yes. Devotee (2): By their own law. Prabhupada: Yes. Hrdayananda: Why shouldn't consciousness also be conserved? Devotee (2): Consciousness is also energy. Prabhupada: Yes. Energy of the soul. As soon as the soul is passed from the body, there is no more consciousness. It is very easy to understand. They cannot explain why the consciousness stops. They cannot explain. But that is the symptom. Yena sarvam idam, avinasi tu tad viddhi..., yena sarvam idam, in the Bhagavad-gita. That thing which is spreading the energy all over the body, that is eternal. Now, what is that thing which is spreading the consciousness? It is the soul. So long the soul is there, you have got consciousness, otherwise there is no consciousness. Very plain word. Avinasi tu tad viddhi. Just try to understand that thing which is spreading consciousness all over the body. Just like a small grain of poison. As soon as you take it, immediately it will spread all over the blood. Even a small grain. And then how much powerful is that spiritual spark? Devotee (2): So the grain is carried by the blood. What is the spiritual spark carried by? Prabhupada: Spiritual spark is not carried by, but he resides within the body. He is carried by his own karma, subtle, subtle desire is carried. Everyone is carried by his desire. Why did I come here, in America? I have got a desire to preach; therefore I've come. Otherwise I had no business to come here. So desire. So desire carries you. That is, the rascals, they do not know. Desire is there, they cannot see, but desire is there. Mind is there, intelligence is there; they cannot see. That is carried. The example is given, just like the aroma of a flower is being carried by the air. And nobody can see, but one can feel, "Oh, it is very good, nice aroma. Wherefrom it is coming?" But he has no eyes to see either the aroma or the air. Similarly, the soul after destruction of this body is being carried by the desire, but they have no eyes to see what is that desire, what is that soul, what is that intelligence. They are saying, "There is no soul." This is mostly stupidity. Hrdayananda: So... Prabhupada: Simply stupids. Hrdayananda: So if someone is Krsna conscious, then nothing can be hidden from him. Prabhupada: Ah? Hrdayananda: If someone is Krsna conscious, then... Prabhupada: Yes, because he learned from Krsna. Krsna says avinasi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam, na jayate na mriyate va..., na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. So we are... Krsna consciousness means you are taking what Krsna says. Therefore... [break] And then you judge in your own way, you'll find, "Yes, it's all right." Avinasi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idam tatam. At the present moment, because your, these blunt eyes cannot see the soul, you have to learn it by appreciation. Avagama. It is called avagama.(?) Appreciation. Just like Krsna says that tad viddhi, that, that thing which is spreading consciousness, that is soul. Now you can perceive there must be something which is now absent, otherwise why there is no consciousness? Where is the difficulty? If you do not see, you can't understand it. Just like the same example, when good aroma is carried. So somebody says, "This good aroma is coming because the air passing through a flower garden, therefore this aroma." Now this is a fact, but you cannot see the aroma or the air. But you hear from an experienced man. That is the way of understanding which is beyond your sense perception. But these rascals, simply they are depending on their blunt senses, these stupids, so-called scientists. Therefore they're stupids. They simply believe on their eyes. They do not know how much defective these eyes and senses are, incomplete. That they do not know. They believe on their defective senses. Aksaja. Aksaja, aks... Experiment. Everything experimented. Veda says don't try to explain which is beyond your sense. How you will explain? It is not possible. Acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet. It is acintya, it is beyond your conception. Why you are wasting your time? Svarupa Damodara: But a scientist will say that "I can show you what the aroma looks like." Prabhupada: They cannot show you, that is another stupidity. (indistinct) anything. Who can deny that Krsna says that avinasi tu tad viddhi yena sar..., there is a thing within the body which is eternal? And what is that thing which is spreading consciousness? And you show what is that thing which is spreading consciousness. Then I shall accept you as scientist. Karandhara: They would say, "How can we believe Krsna?" Prabhupada: No, you don't believe, that here is a fact! That there is something within the body which is spreading consciousness. That is eternal. There's no question of believing. It is a fact. Now you show, what is that fact? Where is that fact? Svarupa Damodara: They'll say it's just biochemical reactions. Prabhupada: Biochemical... You simply do it, rascal. You cannot do it. (Hrdayananda laughs) You rascal, simply speak, but you cannot do it. That is our contention. Hrdayananda: Jaya. Prabhupada: Therefore you are rascal. You speak something which is beyond your power. Yasomatinandana: Prabhupada solves... Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore it is simply cheating people. And we, Krsna conscious men, we want to stop these cheating, any way... Karandhara: They'd say we also cannot prove the soul is eternal. Prabhupada: No, there is proof. There is something. We accept it, but you don't accept it. There are so many things, there are so many things. You do not see, but still you accept it. Just like without father there cannot be son. Now you have not seen your father, but mother says, "Here is your father." You have to believe it. It is a fact. Karandhara: But they can experience being a father themselves. Prabhupada: Ah? Ah? Karandhara: They can experience that, 'cause they can be a father themselves. Prabhupada: They can be father themselves? Karandhara: Yes. Prabhupada: What is that? Without son how one becomes father? Karandhara: No, but they... That example falls within the range of their experience, because they can also be a father. Prabhupada: No, not to your experience. But a superior experience, say mother. Devotee: Yes. Prabhupada: Not your experience. You cannot say by experience who is your father. Your mother can say. Karandhara: No, but the example that I have a father can be appreciated because I can also be a father. Prabhupada: But therefore if that appreciation is there, that avinasi tu tad viddhi yena..., the consciousness is spreading from the soul, so you have to appreciate there must be something from which consciousness comes. That you cannot deny. Karandhara: They say it is biochemical development. Prabhupada: No, but then you replace consciousness by a biochemical combination. That you cannot do. Devotee (2): When the baby is born dead. Karandhara: But just because they say, "Because we can't do it yet..." Prabhupada: No, no, no. You cannot do, therefore you are rascal. You're talking all nonsense. You cannot do it, how you speak? Karandhara: Up till two hundred years ago they weren't able to fly... Prabhupada: Want two hundred..., no, we want immediately, we don't want blank check. (devotees laugh) Rascal blank check. Yasomatinandana: Prabhupada, we can go this way. Prabhupada: Postdated blank check. (devotees laugh) We don't believe. We must have real cash. Devotee (2): And then they will admit actually that their senses are... Karandhara: No, then they'll want to see the soul... Devotee: ...are limited. Devotee: ...they want to see a soul as eternal. Prabhupada: (aside:) Which way? Devotee: Go to one life to another life. Prabhupada: Which way? Devotee: Which way? Devotee: This. Hrdayananda: Where is...? Yasomatinandana: Prabhupada, actually this knowledge is so absolute, in the Bhagavad-gita it is said that pratyaksavagamam dharmyam. You can actually experience... Prabhupada: Yeah. Yasomatinandana: ...just by taking bhakti you can see that your purification comes... Prabhupada: Ah. Yasomatinandana: ...and actually intelligence comes from Krsna. So if actually one is sincere, then Krsna will give him intelligence that "Yes, actually there is a soul, and actually I'm the Supersoul." Karandhara: That intelligence is defective Prabhupada: No, no, my senses are defective. But the source from which I know, that is not defective. I cannot experimentally know who is my father. But the source from whom I understand, that is perfection. Yasomatinandana: In other words they'll get confirmation within their heart. They'll be satisfied, that "Yes, Krsna is God," if they are sincere. Prabhupada: Yeah. If they are sincere. That is the budha. Budha bhava-samanvitah [Bg. 10.8]. Others, rascals cannot (indistinct). Mudha naradhama. They cannot. Devotee (2): They'll say you're sincerely brainwashed. Prabhupada: Ah? Devotee (2): They'll say you're sincerely brainwashed. Prabhupada: Brainwashed? Why? These are facts. Yasomatinandana: But we still have some basis... Prabhupada: If you cannot reply, you're simply misrepresenting scientists. We say there must be something which is spreading consciousness. Now how can you deny it? It is not brainwash. There must be something. Now if you are scientist, you find out. Hrdayananda: That which is spreading consciousness. Prabhupada: Yes. What is that thing which is spreading consciousness? Hrdayananda: So if they say it is the chemical, but they can't do that, they can't... Prabhupada: Yes, you put the chemicals. Just like I have sent my car, it is not running, so they know how it will run. They know. Therefore I say, "But if you do not know, you're speaking nonsense. You do not know anything." And as soon as you are captured, you say "Yes, in future I shall know." What is this? The same, postdated blank check, which has no value. Will the postdated check, will it be accepted by anyone? Suppose you give me a postdated check. If I'm paying, what is this nonsense? This is all nonsense. "Future." (devotees laugh) No future, sir. Immediately. Cash payment. Hrdayananda: So that's cheating. Prabhupada: Ah. That is cheating. Karandhara: But they'll say, "But you also cannot show us." Prabhupada: No, I can show you. I say, there must be something. There must be something. Karandhara: We say it's a spirit; they say... Prabhupada: Whatever it may be there, I say "something." You find out that something. I say something. I don't say spirit, matter or anything. Something. Karandhara: Yes, they say that they look... Prabhupada: Ah, that is their cheating. Find out now, and I accept that they're scientists. Yes. Cash money, sir. Then I shall know that you are rich man. You want to cheat me with the paper? Svarupa Damodara: That's why they'll say that "We are doing research." Prabhupada: That means that... Then don't talk that you are scientists. You are student. You are trying to learn. You're student. You cannot say that you are scientists. Hrdayananda: So regardless of our position, they are not qualified. Prabhupada: Ah? Hrdayananda: Yes. Prabhupada: Their system is to remain a student and pose as teacher, their system. They're trying to learn it, and still they're posing as teacher. Teacher means one who knows. He does not know; still he poses in the post of a teacher. Hrdayananda: So the system cannot be good because it does not purify their character. They still cheat. Prabhupada: No, they're cheating simply. Little knowledge, cheating. Little knowledge. Yasomatinandana: They're simply like neti neti. "Not this, not this." Prabhupada: "Not this." Yes. By negation. Definition by negation. Not positive definition. They say "it is not this." But what it is they cannot say. Devotee: Yes. Prabhupada: That is their process. Hrdayananda: It is not God but... Prabhupada: Ah. Karandhara: (indistinct) Prabhupada: Ah? Karandhara: Either they accept our evidence or... Prabhupada: No, therefore they are fools. That is a fact. Any child can understand that... And even they're less than a child. If I say there is something, therefore there is consciousness, any boy can understand. But they cannot understand. Less than a boy. Karandhara: They say there's no proof that that something... Prabhupada: That is the proof. That is the proof. Devotee (2): Yes, their own law of conservation. Prabhupada: Yes. Karandhara: No, I'm talking about the individuality... Prabhupada: No, no. Individuality... There are so many proofs, there are so many proofs, how you can say it is not? Devotee (2): By their own laws. Prabhupada: No, no, not that. It is different subject. That something is missing within the body, therefore it is dead. So what is your answer? We say something is missing. We shall decide what is that something later on. That something is missing. If you suggest that something is chemical combination, then you do it. Therefore do not know. I say something is missing. If you know, then you replace that something, then you'll know. Karandhara: What do we say that something is? Prabhupada: No... That everyone, any layman can understand, that this dead body is unconscious because something is missing. Any layman can understand. If you know that, then you replace it. I don't say I know, but I say something is missing. Hrdayananda: Jaya. Prabhupada: You have to accept also that. But if you know that something, then you replace it. Otherwise you also do not know. Then why you are talking of big, big word? You do not know. Devotee: (indistinct) Prabhupada: But something is missing. That is accepted by everyone. Bhakta Dasa: (laughs) So we both don't know. Prabhupada: Ah? No, I know better than you. Because you are a fool, I'm a fool, but you are a fool and still you are posing you know. That is the difference. Karandhara: They may say, "We don't know, but we're trying to find out." Prabhupada: That also... Then why I shall give you better position? Karandhara: We are also trying to find out. Prabhupada: Then why should I give you better position? You're on the same level with me. Why you are posing as "I am scientist"? You are a fool, you admit I am fool, you admit you are a fool. But why you are posing as scientist? Svarupa Damodara: Because they will say that they have a..., they are trying to find out experimental things. Prabhupada: You have not found out, that's a fact. As I have not found, therefore you are equally fool like me. Don't pose yourself better than me. Karandhara: If we're both fools... Yasomatinandana: But at least we are accepting some authority which is supposedly very authorized by great saints, sages... Prabhupada: Yes. Karandhara: They have also great authorities. Prabhupada: And all the authorities... No, therefore these persons who do not accept authority, they're rascal. Karandhara: They are accepting authorities. Prabhupada: But they're accepting authority who is not authority. Devotee: They're fools. Devotee (4): Darwin, they're accepting Darwin as authority. Prabhupada: Yes. Karandhara: They say, "But why should we accept any one of your authorities?" Prabhupada: No, then you come to argument, reason, then whether Darwin is authority or Krsna is authority, we have to decide. Devotee: Jaya! Prabhupada: Yes. Yasomatinandana: They accept like, "I have not seen President Nixon, but I accept because I read in the newspaper." So somebody says that, well, by following this bhakti you can see Krsna, but they will not accept that. Prabhupada: Yes. Devotee (2): Why should they accept Krsna as authority over Darwin authority? Prabhupada: Ah? Because He's accepted by... Yasomatinandana: Great sages. Prabhupada: ...great sages, saintly persons, scholars... Devotee (2): By many scientists. Prabhupada: Then fool's paradise it is called... It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss. That is the only conclusion. Karandhara: That's what they say about us. Prabhupada: Because this world is all full of fools, so it is very difficult to push on. That we know. Therefore we should not go to the mudhas. Svarupa Damodara: Birds of a feather flock together. Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes. Hrdayananda: So they can go to Darwin's planet, we'll go to Krsna's planet. Prabhupada: Yes. (laughs) Devotee: But how will we defeat them? Prabhupada: Yanti bhutejya bhutani. Yasomatinandana: By giving them prasadam. Prabhupada: Ah? Yasomatinandana: We'll defeat them by giving them prasadam, right, Prabhupada? Prabhupada: To cure their disease, you have to give them prasadam, and give them chance to hear Hare Krsna. This is valuable. Just like a man suffering from jaundice, he sees everything yellow, and if you say, "No, it is not yellow. White" "No, I see yellow." What can be done, then the medicine has to be given. He'll never say it is white. He'll say it is yellow, because he is suffering. You have to cure. The Krsna consciousness method is curing the disease of jaundice. Hrdayananda: In other words, Prabhupada, unless there are enough gentlemen to accept saintly persons, we cannot talk to them. [break] Devotee (2): :...we have to defeat them by prasadam. Prabhupada: Yes. No, we have to show them mercy. It is not a question of defeat. Just like a diseased person is talking nonsense, so doctors takes care, "All right, go on talking nonsense. Take this medicine." (devotees laugh) That is hospitalization. Yasomatinandana: They're already defeated. Prabhupada: Yeah, already defeated by nature. Mayayapahrta-jnana. That is stated, apahrta-jnana. Maya is taking their all knowledge, and because maya is taking their all knowledge, the preaching is required. [break] Yasomatinandana: So why wouldn't, why couldn't they accept that such simple thing? Prabhupada: They're not wise. Mudha. Na mam prapadyante mudhah [Bg. 7.15]. Because they always engage in sinful activities. These are the sym..., cause of their disease. They're sinful, they're rascal, lowest of the mankind, and whatever knowledge they are proud of, that is maya, and the basic principle is they're asuras, atheists. Yasomatinandana: Just like a prisoner trying to demand explanation from the King... Prabhupada: Let us go (indistinct). Karandhara: Prabhupada, we should go straight back; it's getting late. Prabhupada: Ah? No, no. What is the time now? Karandhara: :Quarter to seven. Prabhupada: :Quarter to seven? Devotee: Yeah. Prabhupada: All right. Devotee (2): Srila Prabhupada, when someone is sick, he willingly goes to the doctor. Prabhupada: Yes. Devotee (2): So... Prabhupada: That is the injunction of the Vedas. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva... [MU 1.2.12]. Therefore these rascals should go to a bona fide guru. Devotee (2): So how we can get them to willingly come... Prabhupada: Ah? Devotee (2): ...to the guru? Prabhupada: Just like if you are diseased, you are suffering the pains, so naturally you shall be inclined how to reduce the pain, how to get out of... Devotee (2): But the scientists... Prabhupada: But these rascals, even though are suffering three kinds of pains, tri-tapa-yatna. Just like why you are covered? Because there is pain. Severe cold, similarly severe heat. So we are suffering, either summer season or winter season. We are suffering, tri-tapa-yatna. There is suffering from our mind, from our body—this is natural suffering. There is bodily suffering, mental suffering, then suffering caused by other living entities. So we are always suffering. But still they're thinking that "We are happy." The disease is already there. Ah? Just like the Arabian do not want to give you petrol. That means there's suffering caused by other nations. So this is going on. They're simply trying to settle up. But the suffering is there. But they're not in their knowledge, that in spite of all their endeavors, the sufferings are there. What is the cause? Then whom shall I go to ask why the suffering is there? Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum [MU 1.2.12]. Therefore you must approach a person who knows how the suffering should be mitigated. Yasomatinandana: But there's so many so-called gurus, Prabhupada, how... Prabhupada: Then you cannot go to the so-called. Yasomatinandana: How can you convince that we are the real genuine people? Prabhupada: That you will have to learn, just like you have to go to school, there is injunction. But if you do not know what is school, go to a cow farmer(?), then that is your fault. If I say, "You go and purchase this from the market," suppose you have to purchase gold, but you go to a storefront, milk seller, how you will get the gold? That intelligence you must have, that where gold can be had. You must go to the person who is dealing really with gold. But if you do not know, then you will be cheated. That much knowledge you must have. Hrdayananda: That is book distribution. Devotee (2): Just like there are some good schools and some bad schools. Prabhupada: And because now they're so fallen, they do not go, neither they know; therefore we are canvassing, "Here is a school." Devotee (2): Yes. Prabhupada: That is our business. "Here is knowledge, come on." Yasomatinandana: Still they won't go. Prabhupada: That is their misfortune. Yasomatinandana: This is the only knowledge. Everybody else is distributing ignorance. Prabhupada: Yes. Svarupa Damodara: Prabhupada? Prabhupada: Yes. Svarupa Damodara: Sometimes questions are raised saying that how do we know that a bird is more intelligent than a human being. Prabhupada: :Yes, bird is more intelligent. Svarupa Damodara: But we are posing that... Prabhupada: Just like, just like, here is a bird, as soon as he see so many men are coming, he'll jump over you. You are not intelligent to jump over. Suppose someone is coming to stab you; you cannot jump. Therefore bird is more intelligent. Svarupa Damodara: How do we know that they're not (indistinct)? Prabhupada: Ah? No, they'll know enemy is coming, even if he says, animals they know. As soon as there is enemy, they take protection. Devotee (2): :But they take the hook. Prabhupada: Ah? Devotee (2): :But the fish take the hook. Prabhupada: Hook? Devotee (2): :When the man is fishing with the hook, the fish that takes the hook...? Prabhupada: :That ignorance is there, but the hook... Not only out of ignorance, out of greediness. That if you become more greedy, he knows that there is sufficient food in the sea, but the rascal is greedy, he's taking another... Due to his rascaldom, he's dying. Greediness. So similarly, all arrangement is there, God-made. Even for human beings. But because they're rascals, they're greedy. They're greedy. Although their greediness cannot satisfy them, everyone is greedy because the law of nature is equal to everyone. If law of nature can supply food to the birds and beast and everyone, why not to the human beings? What human being has done? But they're rascal, greedy, therefore suffering. More, wants more. There is already food grains, milk, flowers, fruits, immense supply, but he'll cut the throat of another animal. Greedy. And they're suffering, committing sinful activities. Svarupa Damodara: We're getting information that only in the human form... Prabhupada: Wherefrom information? Another rascal? What is that information? If you get information from another rascal, what you'll get benefit? The source of information must be perfect. Then you get information, it is all right. If you are a rascal and if you get information from another rascal, then what is the benefit? Karandhara: They'd say there is no perfect source. Prabhupada: Because you are not... You're cheater, you're cheater, you are cheated, therefore that is your version. Karandhara: :We are imperfect. How do we know what a perfect source is? Prabhupada: No, I do not know. Therefore it is said, tad-vijnanartham gurum evabhigacchet. You must know from the person who knows. Karandhara: He's also imperfect. Prabhupada: Ah? Well his perfection is proved there is satisfaction. The so-called scientists, philosophers, politicians, they could not bring peace in the world. That is their fools. Karandhara: We have also not brought peace in the world. Prabhupada: No, our all followers are peaceful. We... I'm getting thousands of letters, how much you are benefited. Devotee: United Nations gets thousands of letters. Hrdayananda: I don't think so. Prabhupada: They get letters protest, that "You, rascal, United Nations, what you are doing for this?" Karandhara: No, they're getting millions of dollars in contributions every year from people that think they're doing... Prabhupada: No, that "in future." No. That is his philosophy. (devotees laugh) Karandhara: Our philosophy also. We say we can bring peace in the world, but that's in the future. Devotee (2): No, but they are giving their contributions. Prabhupada: :(aside:) No. Devotee: Maybe that will help them bring some peace. Devotee (2): :But we already have peace. Hrdayananda: The United Nations cannot bring peace either. Yasomatinandana: This is a question of the standard of peace. Devotees: (discuss among themselves) Prabhupada: Then if you say like that, then United Nations is not better than us, you have to accept. If we cannot give peace, and they are not giving peace, then why they are so big organization? Karandhara: They will say because it is a better organization. Prabhupada: :They cannot answer. They simply give, they can give simply words, that's all. "United," they're speaking of unity, only flags are increasing. Daily another flag, another flag, another flag, and the flags will never unite. And still they are advertising "United Nations." Yasomatinandana: When the war starts, United States... Prabhupada: Yes, in America, they started, United Nations, but they are going to fight with the Vietnam. United Nations. Yasomatinandana: Unless one is free from the material concept of life, like "I'm American," "I'm Indian," "I'm Chinese," "I'm Japanese," how can he be peaceful? Because he has got some grudge against somebody else. Prabhupada: Yes. Yasomatinandana: Whereas as a devotee, he doesn't have any grudge against anybody. Therefore he's peaceful. Devotee: He has a grudge against the demons. Prabhupada: Ah? Devotee: Demons. Yasomatinandana: That's due to love for Krsna. That's not a grudge against demons. Devotee (2): A devotee also is merciful to the demons. Prabhupada: No, no, we are not envious of the demons. Otherwise there is no need of preaching. We are trying to make the demons perfect. That is our preaching. Devotee: Compassionate. Prabhupada: :Ah? Yes. Compassion. Svarupa Damodara: We are preaching that the human form of life is the most important form of any living entities. Prabhupada: Ah? Svarupa Damodara: That human form of life... Prabhupada: Yes. Svarupa Damodara: ...is the most important species. Prabhupada: Developed consciousness, developed consciousness. Svarupa Damodara: But somebody asks, "How do I know a bird is not more highly advanced than a human being?" Prabhupada: How you can ask? Devotee (2): By example. Prabhupada: That is... Human being has created the city. The bird cannot. Devotee (2): Birds also create cities. Prabhupada: No, their cities, their own way, not like this. Human being has constructed the skyscraper building. A bird cannot. In that sense you are advanced. That sense you are advanced. Svarupa Damodara: So they say this is just our own mental concoction. Prabhupada: They can repair their nest with some stick, and that's all. That much they can do. But you can big, big beams, you can... That is the difference. Yasomatinandana: Because even the most powerful birds we can control. Prabhupada: But, but there is no benefit. You are misusing your intelligence by skyscraper building, and they're using their intelligence to make a nest; but the benefit derived is equal. Therefore, in that sense you are less intelligence. Svarupa Damodara: In other words, they never violate the laws of nature, but other..., we are backward, because we tried to fight against the laws of nature. Prabhupada: Yes. That is our disease. Svarupa Damodara: So they are more advanced. Devotee (2): Practically you said that. Prabhupada: Ah? Devotee (2): That the birds are living naturally. Prabhupada: Yeah, naturally. No... They have no discrimination. They have to abide by the laws of nature. But you have got discrimination; therefore you are punished. Devotee (2): So we will attract the scientists by saying that we are both fools? Prabhupada: Ah? Devotee (2): Before we were saying that we were both fools. Is that the way to attract the scientists? Prabhupada: :No, no. That was argument. We are not fools; the scientist is fool. (devotees laugh) We are educated. Devotee (2): But how we can get them to come, to take prasadam? Prabhupada: That... Yes, give them nice prasadam, they'll come. If one scientist can be captured, many others can be captured. (laughter) Yasomatinandana: :By saying that "We have got free food, come and dine with us." Devotee (2): But first we give them prasadam and then they come, or first they come and then we give them prasadam? Prabhupada: Yes, just like that Dr. Wolfe came also. So gradually they'll come, because they're... Svarupa Damodara: :But they're more interested in seeing the molecules than in taking prasadam. Prabhupada: No... Svarupa Damodara: :That is their (indistinct). Devotee (2): So we have to trick them to take prasadam. Prabhupada: They will (indistinct) as students not to see molecules, but to see how palatable dishes are there. (laughter) Devotee: Yeah, they will forget it. Prabhupada: At that time they forget their laboratory. Yasomatinandana: You forgot your laboratory. Svarupa Damodara: Just like Govinda Khorana, he got Nobel Prize about two years ago. Prabhupada: Yes. Svarupa Damodara: So whenever he works, he never cares about anything, but he carries his only piece of paper and pen so that he can write molecules. So his consciousness is only on molecules, and he is very happy. Prabhupada: That is nice. That is maya. That is maya. Even the pig is happy eating stool. That is maya. Avaranatmika-sakti (?). Covering energy of maya. Unless he's covered, he cannot eat and enjoy. Svarupa Damodara: So these are all guided by maya. Prabhupada: Yes. Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. Prakrti is conducting everything, as you are associating with qualities of prakrti. That I have already explained. Devotees: Jaya! All glories to... Morning Walk — December 4, 1973, Los Angeles

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His Grace Purujit dasa, the founder of the Bhaktivedanta Lives In Sound Society, leads discussions every Sunday at 7pm on the books of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's books. Join the growing and already lively devotees on these sessions to derive even more important instructions and advice on how to advance your spiritual life and understanding. Click below to attend!

The following is an excerpt from a book approved by Srila Prabhupada of the name Readings in Vedic literature. In Chapter One we have discussed some of the principles of Vedic learning handed down by the disciplic succession of Vedic teachers. We should also note that in the last two hundred years virtually all Western universities have taken a critical-historical, or empirical, approach. Hinduism and Indian philosophy have become popular subjects in many colleges, and there has arisen a community of established Sanskritists and Indologists. However, if we compare the empirical version of Vedic knowledge with the version of the Vedas themselves, we often find the two at opposite poles. Empiric scholars rarely discuss this conflict. They assume, usually correctly, that readers will accept the empiric version because of the scholar's reputation for probing research and analysis. When discrepancies become obvious, the empiric scholars usually represent their own views as the objective picture of Vedic civilization. Yet these conflicts raise a number of questions. Why do some scholars reject the explanations of the Vedic literature's origin, purpose, and transcendental nature as received from both the texts themselves and the traditional Vedic scholars? Why is the Vedic literature's description of itself necessarily unacceptable? Is it simply that the empiric scholars doubt that the Vedas or the acaryas are what they say they are? The Vedas claim divine origin, and the scholars deem their origin mythological. The Vedas propose to elevate man from suffering and grant him liberation, but the scholars suppose that studying the Vedas for spiritual purposes is unscholarly. Although the Vedas warn that the Vedic teachings are transcendental to material investigation, scholars reject such injunctions as esoteric taboos and proceed to analyze the Vedas in an empirical spirit. They frankly regard the Vedas as mythology and assign themselves to the task of demythologizing. The Vedas affirm that Vedic knowledge must be heard from a spiritual master in the disciplic succession, but the scholar who writes books about the Vedas is not a guru, nor does his scholarly conscience allow him to accept such an approach. Moreover, the scholar surveys the guru from what he considers a superior, more objective and academic vantage point. The Vedas maintain that one must observe strict moral standards and perform austerities before understanding Vedic literature, but scholars consider such things to be unnecessary. What is the best way to study the Vedas? Should we give credence, after all, to what the Vedas say about themselves? Before deciding, we should know something about the substantiality of empiric Vedic scholarship. Empirical Tools The tools used by empiric Indologists are the scientific standards of history, anthropology, archaeology, philology, and related disciplines. Since Indological studies began, in the eighteenth century, the research in every field has become increasingly sophisticated. However, the scholars agree that their critical reconstruction of the origin and nature of Vedic culture is highly uncertain. History Empiricists generally place great importance on understanding historical development, but for the Vedic period there is no history aside from the sastras. For thousands of years the early Indians kept no such histories, and as O. L. Chavarria-Aguilar writes in his book Traditional India, "A more unhistorical people would be difficult to find."1 A Sourcebook in Indian Philosophy informs us, "A historical treatment of Indian philosophy has not been taken up by the great Indian thinkers themselves."2 Ancient Rome had its Livy and ancient Greece its Herodotus, but India had no great historian to record the Vedic period. According to modern Indologists, the Indian's lack of interest in history was not due to a primitive inability to keep records; rather, he accepted the historical version of the sastras as sufficient. Scientific historians choose not to accept the historical validity of the sastras; their alternative is to begin the official history of India with the death of Buddha, in 483 B.C. In any case, this is the earliest date empirically settled. Scholars concede that the Vedic period began thousands of years before Christ, but as for the dating of even approximate periods, "everywhere we are on unsafe ground."3 Nevertheless, scholars have reconstructed various historical periods which they theoretically assign to the thousands of unaccounted years. Pioneer Indologist Max Muller devised a system of classifying the Vedic civilization into periods called "Chandas, Mantra, Brahmana, and Sutra," and a number of scholars have concurred.4 Others have also given their own divisions. Radhakrishnan, for instance, looks upon the broad divisions of Indian history as Vedic, Epic, Sutra, and Scholastic.5 Handbooks on Vedic history differ on specific dates by as much as one or two thousand years. Indeed, Moriz Winternitz, one of the most respected chronologists, argues that any attempt to reconstruct the Vedic period is unscientific. He writes, "The chronology of the history of Indian literature is shrouded in truly terrifying darkness."6 Winternitz somewhat pointedly notes that it would be pleasant and convenient, especially when preparing a handbook on Vedic literature, to divide the literature into three or four periods and assign dates and categories. "But every attempt of such a kind is bound to fail in the present state of knowledge, and the use of hypothetical dates would only be a delusion, which would do more harm than good."7 He states that it is even better not to assign dates to the oldest period of Indian literary history. Using discoveries by related field workers and conducting further research into the texts, successive generations of historians continue to develop new pictures of the Vedic past. However, Winternitz quotes a pioneer American Sanskritist who years ago said, "All dates given in Indian literary history are pins set up to be bowled down again."8 Winternitz remarks, "For the most part this is still the case today."9 We may thus conclude that there is simply no history of the original Vedic civilization in India, at least none that is acceptable in the strict sense of empiric history. Archaeology Archaeology, of course, is especially suitable for finding out about ancient cultures. But what was true for Vedic historical records is also true for archaeological finds, which to date give us no clear picture of Vedic civilization. Of course, many of the geographical sites mentioned in the scriptures are still known, and according to tradition many of the temples in India have been maintained for thousands of years, but these sites have not yielded solid archaeological evidence. Archaeologists and anthropologists cannot accept the sastric version that Vedic civilization flourished in India long before fifty thousand years ago-the date which scientists assign as the earliest possible appearance of homo sapiens on earth. Consistently the sastras mention that Vedic literature was written down at the beginning of the age of Kali some five thousand years ago, and that philosophers, yogis, and rsis lived many millions of years ago. Although empiricists most often discount such sophistication in ancient humanity, they do admit that "the history of the human race is being rewritten with new dating processes and with exciting discoveries around the world."10 The general trend in the rewriting of human history is to push the theoretical date from the beginning of advanced human civilization further and further back into what has become known as prehistory. As far as the archaeology of India is concerned, the excavations of cities and temples have produced no conclusive empirical data about the Vedic culture's first appearance. Western archaeology got its start in India early in the nineteenth century, when the surveyors of the East India Company found many temples, shrines, old coins, and inscriptions written in dead scripts. In the 1830's the edicts of Emperor Asoka were deciphered, and thus Indian civilization was dated at 300 B.C In the twentieth century, work began on a large scale. The most famous archaeological discoveries relating to the prehistoric period took place under the supervision of archaeologist Sir John Marshall, who in the 1920's uncovered the cities of Harappa and Mohenjaro, located in what is now Pakistan. These were the cities of an efficient, urban social community, now called the Indus civilization, which has been dated at 3,000 B.C.11 Though a fabulous find for archaeology, Harappa has contributed but little to our understanding of the ancient Vedic period. If it was hoped that the discoveries at Harappa and Mohenjaro might throw some light on the Vedas, this hope was not fulfilled. Among the artifacts found at Harappa was a small figure of a seated man who might be Siva, but this is not definite. Linguistic research and interpretation of the Rg Veda have given rise to a hypothesis linking the Indus civilization with the origin of the Vedas. As the story has it, the peaceful Dravidians (the name of the original people of Harappa) were invaded by the Aryan barbarians, who brought with them their tales of Indra (Rg Veda). This account enjoys wide currency in books, but it is by no means a scientific conclusion.12 Rather, it is a hypothetical creation set forth to explain what would otherwise be inexplicable. About the Indus civilization, one Indologist comments, "We do not know for certain who the authors of the remarkable civilization were; it is another of those mysteries that make the scholar's life at once interesting and somewhat frustrating."13 As for the theory that the Dravidians met their demise under Indra's hordes of plundering Aryans, H. P. Rowlinson writes, "A number of scholars have pointed the finger of accusation at the Aryans...but the guilt of those immigrants is far from established."14 Thus, although scholars favor various theories, archaeological finds like those of the Indus civilization have to date given evidence insufficient for reconstructing the period in which the Vedic scriptures were composed. Archaeology gains considerable scientific veracity by allying with other disciplines, such as atomic physics (which produced the carbon 14 dating process). Will archaeologists one day find something that will actually solve the Vedic riddles once and for all? Anthropologist Julian H. Steward writes, "Facts exist only as they are related to theories, and theories are not destroyed by facts-they are replaced by new theories which better explain the facts."15 In other words, we might say, although archaeologists intend to find out much more, they may never know for sure. Whatever facts and theories the future may hold, archaeology, the empiricist's main hope, has thus far failed to penetrate the darkness that shrouds the Vedic period; the prime record of Vedic culture is, of course, oral tradition. Hence, in the very area where archaeology alone can give the empiricist knowledge, we can seriously question whether archaeology is even relevant. "Religion is a mental or spiritual phenomenon in which the sacred or supernatural word plays an important part. Obviously this essential expression of religion cannot be investigated archaeologically-the remains are wordless."16 Linguistic Research As we would expect, research has spread to still other disciplines. In fact, among the most important tools in Indological research is the study of linguistics. In the late eighteenth century, linguists in India made a comparative study of Sanskrit, Greek, and Latin and concluded that the languages were so similar in vocabulary and grammar that they must have come from a common ancestral tongue. In 1786, Sir William Jones theorized that Sanskrit and other languages had "sprung from some common source which perhaps no longer exists."17 This language received the name proto-Indo-European. Although there is no clear evidence that this language was ever spoken, linguists reconstructed a proto-Indo-European language with the help of archaeologists, who contributed evidence on who might have spoken it and where. Stuart Piggot writes: "The location of a possible Indo-European homeland and the identification of the culture implied by the linguistic evidence with a comparable archaeological phenomenon, has been a matter of debate since the idea was first formulated in the last century."18 From a hypothetical language, a hypothetical human community emerged, its members called Indo-Europeans. Because words like "horse" and "father" were prominent in the vocabulary of proto-lndo-Europeans, the scholars constructed a community of farmers who had domesticated the horse and in whose society the father was dominant.19 Also, the scholars ascribed to them a religion and rites, although no one can say for certain where these people lived. In a recent history of India we find this assessment: The aboriginal home of the Aryans [the Indo-Europeans are supposed to be the predecessors of the Aryans who invaded India] is again a controversial point, and in the face of the hopeless chaos of conflicting views, it seems impossible to come to any definite conclusion. The most probable theory seems to be that the Aryans migrated into India from outside, the exact region from where they came being still a point of discussion.20 Professor of linguistics Ward Goddenaugh pointed out that chauvinism and racism definitely entered into historical European interpretations of Indo-European origins. Thus, scholars arbitrarily compiled data to prove that the Aryan forefathers came from Europe.21 Despite limited information, linguists tend to construct hypotheses. The prominent Sanskritist A. B. Keith once remarked that by taking the linguistic method too literally, one could conclude that the original Indo-Europeans knew about butter but not milk, snow and feet but not rain and hands.22 Already, it appears, the discipline known as linguistic paleontology has fallen out of favor with scholars. In 1971, the eminent linguist Winifred Lehmann asserted, "Clearly, the linguistic paleontologists had overextended themselves to the point of elimination."23 Dr. Lehmann insists that language cannot be used as a primary source for reconstructing an earlier culture. Still, linguistic theories about the origin and cultural background of the Vedas continue to figure prominently in academic accounts of the Vedic period. In order to date ancient languages, in recent decades Morris Swadesh has devised a linguistic method known as glottochronology. This method arose from the theory that over the millennia, changes in the vocabulary of a language tend to occur at a regular, measurable rate. Scholars have used this method to date the oral tradition of the Vedas as well as the appearance of specific literatures. However, linguists themselves report that "no matter how much the technique is refined, the only dating that it can yield will be of the likelihood variety."24 Glottochronologists have worked out graphs indicating areas in which there is a ninety-percent likelihood that a particular specimen of language can be assigned a correct date. The greater the time period in which the literature might have appeared (thousands of years for Vedic literature), the greater the variance in ascribing the approximate date. The variance grows so great as to be no more than an educated guess. Linguistic critic Charles Hockett writes, "Obviously it is not helpful to find that, though the most likely date of an event is forty thousand years ago, the nine-tenths confidence level defines a span running from ninety thousand years ago to a date ten thousand years in our own future."25 Although regarded as highly imperfect, glottochronology is the best working tool available today for dating ancient languages. It has not, however, revealed anything definite about the origin and real purport of the Vedic literature. Summary As we have marked, empirical evidence for the Vedic period seems scanty and fragmentary; the scholars have few hard facts on which to base mature or reliable conclusions. Accordingly, their full and elaborate picture of Vedic history seems hypothetical and conjectural. Of course, drawn as it is from arduous historical, archaeological, and linguistic research, the hypothetical picture surely merits consideration. At the same time, it appears, Indologists would do well to remember that an official photograph is one thing, a hypothetical picture quite another. Actually, Western scholars have never assessed the Vedic sastras on their own merit. The first studies of the Vedas, for example, were clouded by less than objective motivations. In the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, pioneer Indologists such as Sir William Jones, Horace H. Wilson, Theodore Goldstuker, and Sir M. Monier-Williams approached the Vedic culture with a view to replacing it with Christian culture.26 This naturally tainted their investigation of Vedic literature. While the missionary motive declined, an effort was made by the American transcendentalist school (Henry David Thoreau and Ralph Waldo Emerson, etc.) to appreciate the Vedas as they are. It would be fair to say, however, that the empirical-historical method eclipsed this endeavor before it could shine forth. And because the Vedic system is intrinsically beyond the range of empirical investigation, modern Indologists have also been unable to study the Vedas on the literature's own terms. Thus, it may be appropriate to hear what the Vedas say about themselves. As opposed to the fragmented, highly theoretical, or at best partial appreciations of the Vedas by Western scholars, this approach will aid us in understanding the wide range of Vedic literatures as a sublime and cohesive whole.

A new class by His Grace Purujit dasa on the Srimad-Bhagavad-gita about the eternal nature of the soul.

Do I need to take initiation from a " living guru" or is Srila Prabhupada my guru? Several most and dear disciples of Srila Prabhupada from the early days of the movement describe how Srila Prabhupada desired the initiations to go on after his physical departure. Their testimonies might shed light on this difficult question. GAURIDAS PANDIT DASA One of my services for Srila Prabhupada was to take care of his garden and fan him with the camara while he was there every morning from about sunrise until about 9am. At these times he would chant japa or listen to devotees chant bhajans or read the books to him. Sometimes the secretary, Tamal K.G., would read letters from the devotees. Srila Prabhupada would dictate a response, then the secretary would type it and bring it back later to read it again to Srila Prabhupada who would approve and sign it. On July 5th Tamal asked Srila Prabhupada about some devotees who wanted to get initiated as he was getting many requests from the Temple presidents. This conversation occurred in the garden as I fanned him. Srila Prabhupada said: “Tomorrow I will announce some ritvik acharyas who will initiate disciples on my behalf when I leave the planet.” TAMAL KRSNA GOSWAMI Actually, Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. He didn't appoint eleven gurus. He appointed eleven ritviks. He never appointed them gurus. Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement the last three years because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus. What actually happened, I'll explain. I explained it, but the interpretation is wrong. What actually happened was that Prabhupada mentioned that he might be appointing some ritviks, so the GBC met for various reasons and they went to Prabhupada - five or six of us. We asked him, "Srila Prabhupada, after your departure, if we accept disciples, whose disciples will they be, your disciples or mine?" Later on there was a piled-up list for people to get initiated, and it was jammed-up. I said, "Srila Prabhupada, you once mentioned about ritviks. I don't know what to do. We don't want to approach you, but there's hundreds of devotees named, and I'm just holding all the letters. I don't know what you want to do." So Prabhupada said, "All right. I will appoint so many...," and he started to name them and he did name them. He made it very clear that they're his disciples. At that point it was very clear in my mind that they were his disciples. YASODANANDANA DASA (a passage taken from his diary as written on July 10 1977 ) Tamal Krishna Maharaja comes out of Prabhupada’s room. TKG: “Haribol, Yasoda, did you see this?” Yasoda: “No, what is it?” TKG: “This is signed by Prabhupada.” [Yasoda looks at the July 9th “appointment” letter] Yasoda: “What does all this mean?” TKG: “Devotees have been writing to Prabhupada asking for initiations and now Prabhupada has named eleven ritviks who can initiate on his behalf. Prabhupada said others can be added.” Yasodanandan: “And when Prabhupada departs?” TKG: “They’ll be ritviks. That’s what Prabhupada said. It’s all on tape.” GARGAMUNI DASA Prabhupada had so many rtviks all over the world. They were doing the fire sacrifices, doing the first and second initiation so rtvik is not a bad word. Some unscrupulous people have made it a bad word. It's a good word because Prabhupada started it in 1972. It's a good word. In fact the system worked perfectly. This rittvik system he introduced worked perfectly all over the world. Every devotee stayed in the temple where they were initiated. There was no problem, no politics and then a month before Prabhupada left he mentions in a conversation: "You keep the system. This is a perfect system. If you keep the system, everything will go on as it is going on now." But what did we do? We changed the system. That's another story. And that's why a havoc came in the eighties. It was a havoc, fire in the institution, because we changed the system. Prabhupada said you keep the system, because it was working perfectly. CYAVANA SWAMI Most devotees never really understood who Srila Prabhupada is. The initiation means to begin on the path of Bhakti, each one must figure out how to take that first step. Srila Prabhupada made it perfectly clear to me that we are not his only disciples. His instruction was,"I have given you everything, don't change anything... I will have millions of disciples." These are the most important instructions Srila Prabhupada ever gave us for the future of his Movement...In my discussions with Prabhupada the subject of adding to and changing the books and philosophy came up frequently, but the question of what to do regarding initiations after he was no longer with us was very difficult to ask, it was almost unthinkable at the time that he would not always be with us. Myself and Brahmananda Swami were in Srila Prabhupada's room one morning in Nairobi, Kenya in 1975, at first he seemed surprised at the question, as if he had already made it very clear. We were performing initiations on his behalf all over the world for some years, so he said to simply continue as he had been training us, "on my behalf " was not just for then, it is for always. His answer was clear and simple. AMBARISA DASA The principal definition of the word “initiate” in the dictionary is “to begin or set going”. Is there any question that the primary personality who initiated our reception of transcendental knowledge is Srila Prabhupada? Will this position of Srila Prabhupada ever change for ISKCON devotees? We think not. KIRTANANANDA SWAMI (about the fall down of the various ISKCON gurus) This is why I suggested so strongly that ISKCON should adopt the rtvik process of initiation for the new Gurus. HANSADUTTA DASA Although I see everything in a sane, sober and proper perspective now, it has taken me more than 10 years of painful, anguished and repentant soul searching to understand my problem-a problem which to you and many sincere disciples of Prabhupada was obvious from the moment (and even before that) Prabhupada left this mortal world in 1977. Being completely overwhelmed with the fever of pratistha (desire for name and fame), obsessed with the ambition to be a guru, in short to be the lord and master of the devotees, I consequently became completely blind to the order of Srila Prabhupada, which he clearly expressed in his letter to the GBC and Temple Presidents, dated July 9,1977. In that letter he named 11 devotees and made it clear that they are to act as his rittvik representatives (deputies) for initiating new disciples on behalf of the Founder Acharya A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada never sent any other directive, newsletter or written document thereafter indicating that any one of his disciples should be an acharya or guru in any way. His letter of July 9, 1977, naming 11 senior disciples or rittvik representatives stands alone as the only order Prabhupada ever issued before his disappearance (four months later) in November of that year, 1977. For years since, falling down from the standard of devotional service, I have suffered grievously, knowing I caused the spiritual ruin of hundreds and thousands of sincere, aspiring devotees, whom I stole away (kidnapped) from Srila Prabhupada (the Founder Acharya) by presenting myself as a bona fide acharya, spiritual master, when in fact I was not even able to control my senses any more than an ordinary karmi. Why has it taken me so long to write this frank and honest letter? Because the hankering and ravenous hunger for honour and prestige as a guru, acharya and holy man is so strong in my heart it is only in the last year that by the grace of Prabhupada and the attentive chanting of the Holy Name that the fever of pratistha has subsided to the point where I can clearly see and express myself in this regard honestly. I am humbly prostrating myself before you, Urdhvaga, and all the devotees everywhere, especially those who were subjected to the unhappy relationship of accepting me as their Guru and thereby being completely broken in their faith and enthusiasm to perform devotional service. I know that simply writing a letter of apology is not enough. I shall spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to re-establish Srila Prabhupada as the Founder Acharya and modern-day Vyasadeva of the Brahma Gauidya Vaishnava Sampradaya, as expressed in the enclosed paper, “Prabhupada, His Movement and You.” I suggest that those new devotees who have been erroneously initiated by ISKCON Gurus who like myself have fallen down or who present themselves as anything more than rittvik representatives of the Founder Acharya Srila Prabhupada, can be properly initiated once and for all simply by accepting Srila Prabhupada as their guru and sampradaya acharya by sitting in on a rittvik initiation performed by a devotee who is properly situated in the order of Srila Prabhupada, as per his July 9, 1977 letter authorising rittvik representatives to initiate on his behalf. The bottom line is simply this: The senior disciples should have continued to do after the disappearance of Srila Prabhupada what they were already doing for years while Prabhupada was present-act as Srila Prabhupada’s menial servants in the matter of initiations. They were rittviks while he was present, and they should have continued to be rittviks in his absence. Anything more than this is nothing more than the ambition to be guru, which is one of the two last traps of maya-the other being the desire to be Krishna. VAIKUNTANATH DASA In 1972, when Prabhupada gave a series of lectures on The Nectar of Devotion for one month in Vrindavan, a thought was plaguing me. When I first joined, I’d been taught that the parampara system is like a chain, and if you’re not initiated, if you’re not linked up to this chain, then you can’t go back to Godhead. I thought, “We’re distributing so many books, but if the people who read them are not initiated, then they can’t go back to Godhead.” So, one day I followed Prabhupada from Rupa Goswami’s samadhi, where he lectured, and just before Prabhupada stepped onto his courtyard, I said, “We’re distributing so many books but if people aren’t initiated, then they can’t go back to Godhead.” Prabhupada turned, looked at me right in the eyes and said, “Just by reading my books they are initiated.” I thought, “That is an incredible example of compassion. GURU KRPA DASA In 1977 during the months of May, June, July 1977 I was in Vrindaban with Srila Prabhupada, giving him his massage in his bed between 1 AM and mangala aratik. During the day, many letters would arrive. Satsvarupa Swami was the secretary and we decided that only letters that would give joy to Srila Prabhupada would be read. Like numbers of books sold, etc. A maximum of five letters daily were read to Srila Prabhupada. After some weeks like this, there were stacks and stacks of letters, all relating to initiation. Hundreds of people were panicking that Srila Prabhupada would leave the planet before they were given initiation. At this time, this situation was brought before Srila Prabhupada in his room by Satsvarupa, Tamal, myself, and maybe some others. Up until this time it was a very simple matter that we were doing the initiations, but we first had to ask permission. Srila Prabhupada NEVER refused any recommendation from his senior men. And personally, I would sometimes argue with some GBC that they were giving it too easily. At this meeting, Srila Prabhupada basically said, “From here on, if you feel they are ready, then you may give the initiation on my behalf.” I understood this for what it was, simply extending the authority a little further than it had been. Tamal Krsna Swami, began to say, “But who will do it?. Which devotees will do this?” Srila Prabhupada said, “The nearest one will do it. Whoever is closest.” Tamal said, “Can Bhavananda do? Can Jayapataka do?” Thus these eleven names came out. Question: Why were you not on the list of eleven? Answer: Because it did not matter. Srila Prabhupada said whoever was closest. I was already doing and Srila Prabhupada never told me or anyone else not on the list to stop. ROHINI KUMAR SWAMI At our center at 26th Second Ave., Srila Prabhupada, when asked who would be the next acarya after him stated, “There will not be any more acaryas.” RUPANUGA DASA The idea that one must have a living diksa guru to understand Krsna consciousness from Srila Prabhupada appears to be a scam. The fact is that reading or hearing from Srila Prabhupada is associating with the most bonafide spiritual master, the best spiritual master, at whose pada (lotus feet) all other prabhus pay obeisances. And reading his books is directly associating with him and equal in power to hearing in his physical presence. BHAJA HARI DASA Srila Prabhupada did not 'personally' tend to every one of his thousands of initiated disciples. Many disciples never met Srila Prabhupada even once, what to speak of receive individual instruction. The whole reason Srila Prabhupada set up ISKCON was to train up devotees in spiritual life. This 'personal', 'warm' one-on-one training would be done by Temple Presidents, Sankirtan Leaders, Pujaris, Bhakta leaders etc etc. As long as a disciple strictly followed, Srila Prabhupada promised to take personal responsibility for taking him back to Godhead. To my knowledge that offer still stands. There is absolutely no reason why this system could not have continued to this very day. PRADYUMNA DASA At the time of Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance, it was most clearly understood by all of us present that Srila Prabhupada MADE NO SUCCESSOR. Everyone admitted that fact and understood it clearly. Instead, the GBC was to jointly manage ALL affairs of ISKCON just had been the case previously. This was the same solution as desired by Om Visnupada Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, who also had not made any successor, although his wishes were NOT followed. In addition to the GBC management, Srila Prabhupada also selected 11 somewhat advanced disciples to grant initiation to newcomers. However, it was never mentioned at any time by His Divine Grace that these 11 were to be known as ACARYAS. He simply instructed that they may now accept disciples. Otherwise, as it was understood and practiced at that time, there was NO SPECIAL POSITION given to these 11, either in the society as a whole, or in relation to their Godbrothers. Management would depend on the joint GBC, and among godbrothers and sisters, all are on the same level, with the exception of some special regard and respect shown to older (senior) disciples by these Godbrothers & Godsisters who are junior. GOVINDA DASI Srila Prabhupada could clearly see that none of his disciples were mature enough to set up shop as gurus, so he ordered them to be “ritviks” after his departure. There is ample evidence of this. BHAKTISIDDHANTA DASA The point is – forget the political connotations and let us all remember it is Srila Prabhupada who is always in the centre and the force behind everything at all times. So it is understandable that if anyone is now taking the role of Acharya and not handing his initiates over to the source then, what is the fate of both the new guru and their initiates? This movement would undergo a drastic change if all the new gurus who are initiating on behalf of Srila Prabhupada would recognize this fact and not take glorious worship and stand down to allow all new comers to this society full access to Srila Prabhupada who sweated blood and tears for each one of us who joined this movement. This is how it was in the beginning when Srila Prabhupada was physically with us and was not able to directly attend the initiation ceremony.I am not a political antagonist but most of all my god brother’s and god sister’s like myself are all ritvik. Most of us were initiated when Srila Prabhupada was not physically present. This was not such a big deal to us we were all disciples of His Divine Grace.Srila Prabhupada didn’t hand me my beads or give my name directly; so what is the difference today? Let’s make this movement a better place for all who have joined and will join in the future how we can deny anyone the right to take Srila Prabhupada as their life and soul. I am told there are over 90 gurus now acting as diksa gurus instead of allowing Srila Prabhupada that privilege. To actually put Srila Prabhupada in the centre means to not stand in his way and to allow everyone unrestricted access to Srila Prabhupada like it was in the early days. BALAVANTA DASA I remember telling Tamal: "Why are you changing who you are. You remain who you are. You're Tamal Krishna Maharaja and now you simply have another service which is to initiate. We used to do the initiations on a regular basis, I mean you know, I would chant on beads, we would pick the names, we would give the beads on behalf of Prabhupada not here Just continue doing that. Don't become Gurudeva, don't take this false profile of being like Prabhupada. Balavanta Prabhu performed various services in the movement including being a GBC secretary. SRILA PRABHUPADA GIVES ORDER ON INITIATIONS AFTER HIS DEPARTURE Satsvarupa: ... our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted. Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acaryas. Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya? Prabhupada: Rtvik, yes. GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada – May 28, 1977, Vrndavana Tamala Krsna: But all these persons are still your disciples. Anybody who gives initiation is doing so on your behalf. Prabhupada: Yes. Room Conversations – July 7, 1977, Vrndavana Make your own field and continue to become rtvik and act on my charge. Srila Prabhupada's letter to Hansadutta July 19, 1977, Vrndavana rtvijah -- the priests recommended by the spiritual master SB 8.16.53 rtvik -- priests conducting the ceremony; SB 5.3.2 There may be many spiritual masters who instruct, but the initiator spiritual master is one. KB 80: The Meeting of Lord Krsna with Sudama Brahmana Reporter: Do you expect to name one person as your successor or have you already? Prabhupada: That I am not contemplating now. But there is no need of one person. Room Conversation with Reporter -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles

There are many misconceptions floating around the devotional sphere about the actual nature of initiation. In the following excerpt from a letter, Srila Prabhupada gives a clear definition. Diksa, or initiation, means the beginning of spiritual realization. So every disciple must make his own spiritual progress positively and help others to do so. Letter to: Nayanabhirama -- Bombay 30 April, 1971

This article, which a portion of Srila Prabhupada's translation and commentary of the Shri Caitanya-Caritamrta, will elaborate on the science and personality of Shri Gadadhara, one of the principal associates of Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. ei tina tattva, -- 'sarvaradhya' kari mani caturtha ye bhakta-tattva, -- 'aradhaka' jani The three predominators [Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Nityananda Prabhu and Advaita Prabhu] are worshipable by all living entities, and the fourth principle [Sri Gadadhara Prabhu] is to be understood as Their worshiper. In his Anubhasya, Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, describing the truth about the Panca-tattva, explains that we should understand that Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the supreme predominator and that Nityananda Prabhu and Advaita Prabhu are His subordinates but are also predominators. Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the Supreme Lord, and Nityananda Prabhu and Advaita Prabhu are manifestations of the Supreme Lord. All of Them are visnu-tattva, the Supreme, and are therefore worshipable by the living entities. Although the other two tattvas within the category of Panca-tattva -- namely, sakti-tattva and jiva-tattva, represented by Gadadhara and Srivasa -- are worshipers of the Supreme Lord, they are in the same category because they eternally engage in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. srivasadi yata koti koti bhakta-gana 'suddha-bhakta'-tattva-madhye tan-sabara ganana There are innumerable pure devotees of the Lord, headed by Srivasa Thakura, who are known as unalloyed devotees. gadadhara-panditadi prabhura 'sakti'-avatara 'antaranga-bhakta' kari' ganana yanhara The devotees headed by Gadadhara Pandita are to be considered incarnations of the internal potency of the Lord. They are confidential devotees engaged in the service of the Lord. In connection with verses 16 and 17, Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura explains in his Anubhasya: "There are specific symptoms by which the internal devotees and the unalloyed or pure devotees are to be known. All unalloyed devotees are sakti-tattvas, or potencies of the Lord. Some of them are situated in conjugal love and others in parental affection, fraternity and servitude. Certainly all of them are devotees, but by making a comparative study it is found that the devotees or potencies who are engaged in conjugal love are better situated than the others. Thus devotees who are in a relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in conjugal love are considered to be the most confidential devotees of Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Those who engage in the service of Lord Nityananda Prabhu and Lord Advaita Prabhu generally have relationships of parental love, fraternity, servitude and neutrality. When such devotees develop great attachment for Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they too become situated within the intimate circle of devotees in conjugal love." This gradual development of devotional service is described by Sri Narottama dasa Thakura as follows: gauranga balite habe pulaka sarira hari hari balite nayane ba'be nira ara kabe nitaicanda karuna karibe samsara-vasana mora kabe tuccha habe visaya chadiya kabe suddha habe mana kabe hama heraba sri-vrndavana rupa-raghunatha-pade ha-ibe akuti kabe hama bujhaba sri-yugala-piriti "When will there be eruptions on my body as soon as I chant the name of Lord Caitanya, and when will there be incessant torrents of tears as soon as I chant the holy names Hare Krsna? When will Lord Nityananda be merciful toward me and free me from all desires for material enjoyment? When will my mind be completely freed from all contamination of desires for material pleasure? Only at that time will it be possible for me to understand Vrndavana. Only if I become attached to the instructions given by the Six Gosvamis, headed by Rupa Gosvami and Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, will it be possible for me to understand the conjugal love of Radha and Krsna." By attachment to the devotional service of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, one immediately comes to the ecstatic position. When he develops his love for Nityananda Prabhu he is freed from all attachment to the material world, and at that time he becomes eligible to understand the Lord's pastimes in Vrndavana. In that condition, when one develops his love for the Six Gosvamis, he can understand the conjugal love between Radha and Krsna. These are the different stages of a pure devotee's promotion to conjugal love in the service of Radha and Krsna in an intimate relationship with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. yan-saba lana prabhura nitya vihara yan-saba lana prabhura kirtana-pracara yan-saba lana karena prema asvadana yan-saba lana dana kare prema-dhana The internal devotees or potencies are all eternal associates in the pastimes of the Lord. Only with them does the Lord advent to propound the sankirtana movement, only with them does the Lord taste the mellow of conjugal love, and only with them does He distribute this love of God to people in general. Distinguishing between pure devotees and internal or confidential devotees, Sri Rupa Gosvami, in his book Upadesamrta, traces the following gradual process of development. Out of many thousands of karmis, one is better when he is situated in perfect Vedic knowledge. Out of many such learned scholars and philosophers, one who is actually liberated from material bondage is better, and out of many such persons who are actually liberated, one who is a devotee of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is considered to be the best. Among the many such transcendental lovers of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the gopis are the best, and among the gopis Srimati Radhika is the best. Srimati Radhika is very dear to Lord Krsna, and similarly Her ponds, namely, Syama-kunda and Radha-kunda, are also very dear to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura comments in his Anubhasya that among the five tattvas, two are energies (sakti-tattva) and the three others are energetic (saktiman tattva). Unalloyed and internal devotees are both engaged in the favorable culture of Krsna consciousness untinged by philosophical speculation or fruitive activities. They are all understood to be pure devotees, and those among them who simply engage in conjugal love are called madhurya-bhaktas, or internal devotees. The loving services in parental love, fraternity and servitude are included in conjugal love of God. In conclusion, therefore, every confidential devotee is a pure devotee of the Lord. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu enjoys His pastimes with His immediate expansion Nityananda Prabhu. His pure devotees and His three purusa incarnations, namely, Karanodakasayi Visnu, Garbhodakasayi Visnu and Ksirodakasayi Visnu, always accompany the Supreme Lord to propound the sankirtana movement. Adi 7.15-19