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Argument With An Atheist About Accepting Authority

The following is a chat I had with someone who wanted evidence for the soul being different from the body. However, he didn't want to actually hear the answer. So what was the use of asking? This is a principle that preachers often encounter; people may come, but they don't come to understand, they simply want to argue. Here's how I dealt with it.

Actual image of the atheist in question during the debate

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

claims need evidence my friend

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

yes there is evidence your body is changing is it not?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

and what is that evidence of?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

That you are not the body

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

why do think that is evidence of that? that's an unwarranted leap

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

The body you had when you were a child is gone. Yes?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

no it changed

how do you get from that change to "therefore you're not in your body"

especially given what we know about brain damage causing personality changes

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Changed means different body

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

no, it means the body changed

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Changed is different. Can you say you a child’s body?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

genetically, yes it's the same

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

I didn’t say genetically

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you said it was a different body, which is incorrect

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Is it the same body? let us speak in layman’s terms

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

we are speaking in layman's terms

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Is a child’s body the same as an adult body in all practical aspects?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

that's a different question

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Can you walk around In a diaper as an adult?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

yes you can

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Will people have the same reaction as when a child does it

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

how is that remotely relevant to your point?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Will they?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

it's not relevant

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You are dodging

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

the question has nothing to do with what we're discussing

kindly support your claim

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Ah very bad how can we have a civil debate if you can’t answer basic questions

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

if you can explain why it's relevant...

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

It’s absolutely directly connected

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

why do you think that

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You may not be able to understand how at this point but I promise you it’s connected. I think you know that it is and therefore you are avoiding answering

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

so explain how it is connected...

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

It’s clearly connected it’s self explanatory, why don’t you just answer it so we can move forward? Do you think I’m such a fool that I just ask off topic questions? I don’t have time to waste in that way

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

it's not self explanatory at all

I don't see any relevance to the question, it's a waste of time

can you or can you not support your claim?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

No first you answer my question then you can ask

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

show why the question is even slightly relevant

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Because I’m already answering your questioning but you don’t want to hear the answer.

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

that doesn't somehow mean that any question you ask is relevant

and no, I want an answer

just one that's actually coherent

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You are very expert in dodging sir

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

means nothing from you

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Well if you don’t like how I answer what can I do

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you haven't answered why it's relevant

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Why ask a question if you don’t want to hear the answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you've said "oh it's just self explanatory" which doesn't answer the question

why pretend you know what I do or don't want?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

That’s quite foolish. Imagine you’re walking in a forest and you ask someone “how do I get out of here?” And he says “go that way” and you reply “no I’ll go my own way.” That person would be a fool right? Why even ask in the first place

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

that doesn't map onto this at all

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Why not?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

no part of that is comparable to our situation

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You asked a question. I answer. You reject my answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you didn't answer though

and if you think that's comparable to asking directions in the forest then I don't know what to say to you

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

No I was trying but you didn’t want to hear

Hence the example

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I do want to hear, but I want to hear an actual answer

the example didn't work

why does how someone reacts to how someone else is dressed have any bearing on what you claim?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Well who are you to determine what a “real” answer is? If you already know then why ask? That’s why I used the example

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I didnt say real answer did I

your example was pathetic

it doesn't apply

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You said “actual”

Same thing

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

yes, not real

no, not same thing if you understand the language

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

“I do want to hear, but I want to hear an actual answer”

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

yes an actual answer, rather than not an answer

which is what you keep offering

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

What is the difference I am a fool please tell me

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

read

why does how someone reacts to how someone else is dressed have any bearing on what you claim?

why does a body changing mean what you think it does?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You keep avoiding my answer so why should I keep trying to explain it to you

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

avoiding?

mate you need to learn what words mean

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

If I start again you will say “no I want an actual answer”

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

if you don't answer then yes I will ask for an answer

replying something not related to the question is not an answer

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Well if you are the only person who can determine what a real answer is there’s no point in asking anybody anything

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I didn't say real answer

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

“Actual”

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you need to learn English

yes, an actual answer

as opposed to not an answer

for the second time of writing...

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

I am not so expert to see the difference it appears they mean the same thing

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

clearly

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Well at least the affect is the same

I give you an answer and you don’t accept it

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

nope

that's not what is happenign

you haven't answered the question

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Again

You just did it again

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

as I have said, repeatedly now

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

All my answers you reject

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you are not answering the question

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

What can I do

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you can actually address what was asked

ie answer the question

rather than what you are doing, which is not addressing what is asked

why does how someone reacts to how someone else is dressed have any bearing on what you claim?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

As far as I remember that’s what you just did because I asked you something in order to answer you and just didn’t address it

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

okay cya

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Bye bye

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you don't appear to be able to support what you claim

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

I think you have definitely shown that you don’t like to accept answers but still ask questions

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

wow

you

havent

answered

what

was

asked

I don't know if it's a problem with your English or what

but you are not addressing what the question asks

do you understand that?

if I ask you what your favourite fruit is and you say 11

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Hm anyway I think my time would be better answering people who actually want the answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

that you're not answering the question

okay you clearly don't actually understand english to a decent level

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

And who don’t just ask to argue

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I

I'm asking to get the answer

and you're not actually reading or understanding or answering the question

but sure, run away

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Well when I try to give it all I get is you not moving forward and accepting my answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

because it's not an answer to the question that was asked

what part of that do you not understand?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

I think this may be a case of projection

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

can you show me why a body changing is evidence of a soul

guess not

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

If I give you the answer will you accept it?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

not automatically accepting something I havent read

is that really what you demand?

that people accept your claims before they even hear the justification for them?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

At least people should accept to hear the answer

Otherwise what is the use of asking

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I want to hear an answer, problem is you haven't been answering what was actually asked

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

I may not answer in the way you demand but I’m not your servant

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you've not been addressing what was asked

nothing to do with my demands

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

So because you approached me you should accept the way I answer you

You don’t have to accept the answer

But the way I give the answer you must accept

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

if "the way" you answer me is to not actually answer the question

but just say something else

then why must I accept that?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

No you didn’t let me finish

I was in the middle of answering you but you didn’t let me move forward so what can I do

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

it's text, not as if you can't write if someone else is writing

and no, you were in the middle of saying that I really should accept your answer

that's not answering

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

No but I was asking you a question in order to answer your question and you didn’t want to answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

because I don't see how that question is relevant

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Well that’s your problem not mine

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

if you like

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Yes

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

why does how someone reacts to how someone else is dressed have any bearing on what you claim?

think I may have asked this five times now

but yeah, it's me that is refusing to answer right

trying to find out why you think what you do, but I'm just not interested?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Well yes because I asked a question and now instead of answering you are just asking this question so I would say you are the one refusing

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I'm asking that question to try to get past the block

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

There is no block

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

we disagree

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You just don’t want to answer my question

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

because I don't see why it is relevant

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

If you answer there is no block

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

if you say why it's relevant I will answer

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You may or may not see that’s another thing

But you asked me

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

so help me see rather than act like this

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

So you should accept how I answer the question

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

that's nonsense

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Why

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

not how reality or logic works

you don't just get to say that you can answer in any way you like, even when that way is by asking seemingly irrelevant questions

why does a body changing mean what you think it means?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Imagine it like this, you go to school to learn right? So now you take up to the math course or whatever; then the teacher starts giving you formula to work out the problems and you say “no I don’t like these formulas” is that very intelligent?


"If you don't tell me exactly what I want to hear..."

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

that's not what is happening though

not even remotely applicable

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Why not

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

because youre not a teacher

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Well you are asking me

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

for one

I'm asking you about your opinion

why you think one thing means another thing

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

It’s an analogy so it doesn’t have to be that you are a math student to understand the principle

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

your opinions are not mathetmatical formulas

it's a shit analogy

basically none of it maps, yet again

why does a body changing mean what you think it means?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Hm well I’m cautious to answer you because everything I say you reject

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

then support what you claim better

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

That’s what I’m trying to do but you don’t like it so why do you say like that

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I disagree that you are

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Not all the proofs have to be exactly what you expect them to be what do you think you’re god or what

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I don't see how asking a question about an adult in diapers gets us closer to the answer

so I ask you why that's relevant

and you do all this

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

No see my above answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I'm not saying it has to be anything

I'm asking you to explain why that's relevant

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Yes you are every time I answer you you say that’s not how I can answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

copy paste where I've said that

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Otherwise why don’t you just answer the question

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I don't see how asking a question about an adult in diapers gets us closer to the answer

so I asked you to tell me why it does

and you behave like I've insulted you greatly and called you a fool

and I'm just being oh so nasty and won't listen to anything

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You might not see you are not omniscient but I see and I’m the one you are asking for an answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

hahaha

you're pathetic :)

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Now we are just name calling so this conversation has turned into rather childish affair

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

if you were omniscient, you'd be able to answer simple questions

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Anyways

I didn’t say I was

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

glad to see you couldn't even get close to supporting what you claim

you implied that you were, you know...English

last try, how does asking a question about an adult in diapers gets us closer to the answer?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

That is your misunderstanding: I said I can see because I’m the one who has the answer you’re asking for so I know how and why a question I’m asking is relevant

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

no that's your use of English

and I've asked you to explain why it's relevant

and you refuse

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Sorry but I just can’t waste my time like this with someone who doesn’t want to know the answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

someone who keeps asking for the answer, and for you to explain why you think what you think doesn't want the ansewr

sure

just run away, it's easier than explaining

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Why are you asking a teacher why he’s teaching like the way is? Isn’t that foolishness. Try to understand the example.

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

that's not what I'm doing

and you're not a teacher

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Well you’re asking me something

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

your opinion

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

If you didn’t want me to teach you why do you ask

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

it's not teaching

it's asking you about your opinion

shrink your ego just a little

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

What is the difference?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

huge

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Okay well let’s use a better word then that is of your choosing

But the principle is why approach me for an answer if you don’t like the way I answer you

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

so if you come to me and ask me something mathematical

and I answer you with "egg sandwich"

then you should just be happy with the answer?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Well if that was your final answer yes that would be confusing.

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you'd accept it?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

I’d accept you as a fool certainly

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

according to what you just said you should accept it

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

But that’s not where I was stopping

I was going further but you don’t want to hear

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

according to your own logic you should accept that answer

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

No

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

yes

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

That’s another thing

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

any danger of you explaining why someone's reaction to someone else in a diaper is relevant to your explanation of why you think a body changing means there is a soul?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

If you explained why an egg sandwich is an answer to something mathematical the I might accept your answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

that's not what you said

you also seem to think that people should know how you're going to answer before they approach or ask you a question

which is more nonsense

any danger of you explaining why someone's reaction to someone else in a diaper is relevant to your explanation of why you think a body changing means there is a soul?

can we get back to the actual question of your claim

you said that a body changing is evidence there is a soul did you not?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Any danger in answering if people’s reactions to an adult wearing a diaper would be different to the reactions to a child wearing diaper?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

sure, I can answer that once you tell me its relevance

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

No why do I have to do that? I say it has relevance and you are the one asking me

So you should accept that it has relevance

You do not know

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

so you want me to just automatically accept everything you say?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

That’s why you’re asking

You do not know otherwise why would you be asking

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

so me not knowing means I should just accept what you say?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You must at least accept the way I answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

no

not if you answer nonsensically

for example

I want reasons to think what you say is true

not to just accept it

do you really not see why?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You don’t know whether or not I’m answering nonsensically because you don’t know, otherwise why would you ask

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

that's not how it works

you can see if an answer is nonsensical without needing to know the reality

back to my "egg sandwich" example

do you just believe everything that you are told?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Yes that’s how it works everywhere. You go to a doctor and ask him a question about your health and so he asks you questions about where the pain is or what your diet is like etc. and if you say “why are you asking these questions? I don’t accept them” aren’t you a fool?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

no that's not how it works

so you go to the doctor

and he asks you how may egg sandwiches you have in the car

you just answer that, without asking why they want to know that?

or why they could possibly want to know that

you saying something that, as far as I can tell, makes no sense

so I'm asking you why you think it makes sense

can you tell me why someone's reaction to diapers on an adult/child has any bearing on what you're claiming?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

It makes no sense to you because you are not in knowledge of the answer otherwise why would you be asking a question

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

so why not help me understand why it makes sense to you? rather than just demanding I accept it

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

I don’t demand but you are demanding an answer from me I am trying to explain it you and yet you don’t like to accept the way I explain it so what can I do

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you are demanding

you want me to just answer it without thinking it has any relevance

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You started this message thread an asked me first

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

yes I asked you to support what you claim

as the burden of proof is on you

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Yes so you demanded from me

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

logically you have the burden of proof, nothing to do with me

and has nothing to do with me asking you to explain why the question is relevant

you're not going to explain are you?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

I will if you accept how I explain it otherwise why should I waste my time

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I cannot say I will accept how you say it blindly

I need to see how you explain it

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Why

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

because in order to evaluate what you're saying I have to read it first

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Yes so you should hear

Not reject

Then you can evaluate

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

have to hear before you can accept or reject

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Yes

Very good

You have understood

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

so for the billionth time...

That's what I've been saying from the start

don't try to be patronising

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

I’m not trying

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

another thing we disagree on

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

That’s alright that’s clear

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

so why is how someone reacts to a diaper relevant

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

So if you kindly answer my question you will quickly understand why I asked it and why it’s relevant

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you said you'd explain why it's relevant....

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

I promise you you will understand if you answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

**** me

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

No thanks

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I will answer if you explain why it's relevant

as we just agreed

or those of us who speak english did

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

It’s not possible to explain. The only way you can understand dis if you answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you can't explain why it's relevant?

please stop lying

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

How do you know I’m lying

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

kindly explain why how someone reacts to clothing has anything to do with why you claim a changing body neccessarily means a soul

because if you couldn't explain why it's relevant you wouldn't have been able to go down this line of reasoning in the first place

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

I know this is very important to you, but I promise you can’t understand the relevance until you answer because only at that point will you seen the connection

I can understand if it’s relevant because I know the answer

But you don’t know yet

Which is clear because you asked the question in the first place

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

wow back to trying to be patronising

you really need to work on that

if you don't mean it that is

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

No it is important to you that’s a fact because you’ve been pressing on this point for so long

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I've been asking you to explain your claim

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Is it not

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

if it's the truth I'd like to hear it

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

If it was not important you wouldn’t ask so many times

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I'd like to accept true things

I'm asking so many times because you;re refusing to answer

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

No I don’t want to appear patronizing but this is clearly important to you so I want to you to know the answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

sure people react differently to different people wearing different things

pathetic that you couldn't explain the relevance though

truly

I would be quite concerned if you didn't have any reaction to this

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Okay so why do they react differently if it’s the same body

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

because the body changes I guess

it's still my body however

not to mention, morality, religion, sexuality etc etc etc

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

If it’s your body then keep it

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

not sure what that even means

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

The body you had before is gone because people now react differently to the body you have now. Aka it’s a different body

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

that last bit just doesn't follow

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

How can you be your body if it’s different now but you are still here.

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

it's a changed body

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

It’s a totally different body

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

no it's not though

same dna, same consciousness

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

If it’s the same then why do people react differently

Yes exaclty

Same consciousness

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

for the reasons I gave

if the dna are the "instructions" and that's the same, how can you claim it's a different body

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Yes there’s no disagreement: consciousness is the same but the body is different

Who is saying that the dna is the same

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

there is total disagreement

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Is it the dna

Itself

Saying dna is the same

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

study of it

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

This is a study; this is empirical. In every practical sense the body is different. In size, shape and how it interacts with everything

Same means identical

Not similar

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

having differences in no way means the body is a completely different body however

dna is identical as long as replication succeeds

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

What is remaining exactly

Okay dna

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you've still yet to tie any of this to a soul

or in fact show such a thing exists

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Okay so why can’t we just put dna in a dead body and make it alive again?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

seriously?

what are you even talking about now

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

When the body dies

You should just put in the dna

And it will work again

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

why do you think that would do anything

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

If dna is the source of life

I don’t, you do

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

who said dna is the source of life?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You did. You say there’s no soul.

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

where did I say either of those things?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

So what is the source of life according to you

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

please, read rather than lie about what I have or haven't said

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

If it’s not the soul and not dna

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I don't know

but I've said nothing about the soul

and I didn't say dna was the source of anything

why just make stuff up?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You said that the dna is always the same despite the body changing. So why at death is it not the same

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I said that as long as the copying works properly dna remains the same in us

you've added all the stuff about death and sources and whatever else you want to add on

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Why doesn’t it work properly at death

Dna

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

because we're dead..

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Copying

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

why don't your eyes work properly when you're dead?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

What kind of answer is that

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

an honest one

the power goes off, why would you expect the machinery to still work?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

No we’re not dead because the dna is the same according to your philosophy

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

not what I said at all

you really need to stop pretending I've said things I haven't

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Machinery you can replace the part

And make it work again

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

not when the power is off

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

So you should be able to do that with the body

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

please read what is actually written

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

So turn the power on again same thing

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

we don't know how to

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Why not? You say it’s dna

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I've not said that at all

can you copy paste where I said dna is the thing that means we're alive?

because I've not written that

and you keep on pretending I did

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

If you don’t know I’m giving you the answer

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

no you're lying about what I've said

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Why do you want to remain in ignorance

The answer is the soul

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

can you show such a thing exists?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

The soul leaves the body at the time of death

That’s why you can’t revive it

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

evidence for that please

but we have revived people

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

For eternity?

Can you keep reviving them?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

does the word "revive" mean "for eternity" ?

you said you cannot revive a body after death

which is untrue

whether or not you can keep doing it doesn't have any bearing on what you said being untrue

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You say you don’t know so you should learn from someone who knows

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you claim to know

do you have evidence for your claim?

rather than just these assertions

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

So you don’t know so why don’t you learn

From me

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

because you don't know

you claim to know

which is why I'm asking for evidence for your claims

please show souls exist

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

It’s not so easy to have direct perception of the soul; it’s not possible to see something beyond the senses with your senses. That’s logically imposisble

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

more claims

and no, we see things beyond our senses all the time

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

How

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

can you see xrays with your eyes?

infrared

etc etc etc

despite all that, you still claim a soul exists

please support that claim

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Yes so similarly the soul exists beyond your senses

I cannot see those things

You are correct

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

yet we can see them using tools we have

so your claim that we cannot see things that are beyond our senses is demonstrably incorrect

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Similarly mediation is a tool that lets you see the soul

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

please provide evidence to support your claim

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Yes so just like you have to take a picture of the x ray to see it you have to take up mediation to see the soul. Same process.

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I have meditated for years

how does one see the soul and then how do you verify that what you experienced is what you are claiming it is?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Yes and because have used the wrong process you haven’t perceived the soul. You can’t practice on your own you need a guide

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

ah so it's jsut me doing it wrong

another pathetic answer

how do you verify that what you're experiencing is what you claim?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

First of all you need a teacher to learn how to mediate. Just as in when you want to perceive dna for example or may subject matter you have to read books and accept some authority in order to understand.

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you can see dna without a teacher pointing it out to you

which is obvious otherwise we wouldnt have discovered it...

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

That’s nonsense did you discover dna by yourself?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I don't need to have in order for what I said to be true

did the people who discovered dna have a teacher telling them how to do it?

the answer is no btw

how do you verify that what you're experiencing is what you claim?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

How do you know it’s dna

You read about it

From someone who knows

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

no

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

You can’t verify, because you don’t know

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

dna was hypothesised before discovery

so you compare the characteristics of what you find with the characteristics of what you're looking for

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Just like a teacher, he can verify if something is correct. The student can’t do it otherwise there would be no meaning to the relationship between teacher and student

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

sorry mate, but you're scientifically illiterate

and no, they didn't "ask teacher" to verify for them

so you're saying the only way to verify the soul is just to ask someone else's opinion?

no study of it and its characteristics etc?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Yes you can study it but you learn from an authority just like you learn about dna from a teacher or a book

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you learn what the characteristics of it are

but you said when you meditate you can't verify it yourself, why not?

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Did you hypothesize about dna before learning about it?

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

I don't need to hypothesise about it, it's proven

what a strange question

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

Similarly the soul has been proven

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

you do understand what a hypothesis is?

I disagree

the soul has been claimed

very much

but I've yet to see evidence supporting those claims

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

I say dna has been claimed

CHALLENGING ATHIEST

and you'd be demonstrating incredible ignorance

we have nothing like the evidence we have for dna to support the claim of the soul

you understand we have "read" the dna of many other living things?

we can edit it and so on

we can move genes from one organism to another

as I thought, you have no evidence for your claim

you're ignorant of science

etc etc

sadly, this has been a monumental waste of time

MAITREYA RISHI DASA

So your process for understanding whether or not dna is dna is that you made a hypothesis about it and then when you saw it you could verify. So similarly you can make a hypothesis about the fact the soul is what is making the body alive, and then you can test that claim with meditation

You said you don’t know why the body is dying

You would have to take to this process in order to know. Because you don’t know, you can’t verify until you take to the process

Well, if you can’t answer I’ll take it as the proof that you are dogmatic

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